How long have you lived in the Bay Area? [Burbed.com]

March 15, 2008

How long have you lived in the Bay Area?

Weekend topic: How long have you lived in the Bay Area?

What are the biggest changes that you’ve seen since moving here?

Discuss!

Posted by: burbed @ 5:09 am

75 Responses to “How long have you lived in the Bay Area?”

Target-Addict Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 6:52 am
I’ve been lucky enough to live here my whole life (40 years) and remember back in the early 1980s when my best friend told me that my parents’ house would probably be worth a million dollars someday. I laughed out loud; I thought maybe HER parents’ lavish Atherton home, sure, but my folks humble ranch-style in West Menlo? Top a mil?? I guess she got the last laugh, because some new “mini-mansions” just went up in my parents’ neighborhood for upwards of FOUR million.
L.. Opine Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 10:07 am
2 1/2 years. Moved near San Francisco from the LA area for a new job. One challenge is the wait–I knew in 2005 things were about to tank, and now it’s just a waiting game until prices drop back to levels I’m comfortable with.Until then, rents are cheap, so I enjoy the carefree life of a former homeowner.
L.. Opine Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Oops, misread “changes” as “challenges.”

In just 30 months we’re gone from multiple bids over asking to dozens of listings failing to sell even at a loss. It’s pretty dramatic, especially because I came here just a couple of months before the market started unraveling, and folks were still euphoric about the crazy appreciations, with priced-out-forever mentalities.
sonarrat Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Since 1989, and I went through the whole public education system here, all the way through college and out the other end. There’s a whole lot of new development in my hometown, and the incomprehensible spike in housing prices has meant that a lot of people have moved in who really don’t fit into the neighborhood. They think they’re getting one thing, but they really get another - after all, they’re the only people on the block who paid over $1 million for their house. It’s great for people who have been here a while, but the newer buyers cannot be happy.
Renter4 Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Ten years. Initially, we were Priced Out Temporarily; now we’re Priced Out Forever. It felt like paradise to me when we arrived. I’d never lived in any place so consistently beautiful. Now I’m sick of it and want to get out. The crowding, the endless struggle for parking, the asthma that came on after I’d been breathing the air for a while, the shittiness of the schools nearly everywhere (such that parents pass the hat to pay the art teacher), the fact that every nice thing any well-off person has or does or eats is subsidized by a large population of illegal immigrants who don’t even get minimum wage…

Well, let’s face it, that last is probably true everywhere in this country. Still, I’ll be glad to get out. Yeah, I’ll have to drive in snow. I can live with it.
DreamT Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
11 years; still remember former boss buying a San Mateo house for $600k in 2000 and everybody commenting on how crazy an investment that was because of the recent spike in house prices. He quickly upgraded afterwards using his newfound equity. Biggest changes? People used to complain about how dot-com money would cause gentrification and would kick out artists from the BA. No more - wealth concerns have replaced social ones it seems.
Wowzee Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
I’ve lived in the Bay Area zero years. I live in Seattle. When I was married my wife & I visited the Bay Area, around 1995. She fell in love with the place and eventually moved there. I thought it was sub-par compared to Seattle, even considering the weather. One thing that seems prevalent there is what I call Me Me Me. Like we waited a long time for a table in a restaurant, along with lots of other people, and when our name was called a family who had just come in the door took the table. They didn’t get away with it, but still that just doesn’t happen where I live. In a typical weekend there I’ll notice a few outlandish Me Me Me incidents, esp. on the road.

Still I do like to visit, and if money were no object I’d live there for a while. I’ll be there in a couple weeks.
tony Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
I moved to SF from Tucson AZ back in 1998… I was in my mid twenties and San Francisco was a great change from the fu#@ed up backward cowboy town known as Tucson AZ. The Dot-cot crap was in full swing back in 98′ and rents were crazy. I make a very good living and I used to own a beautiful brand new house in Tucson… There was no way I could or would buy in the BA. Not back then and not until the shiz hits the fan here and prices drop. I saw my old SF 2 bedroom apartment on craigslist the other day asking only $150 more a month then I was paying 10 years ago!!
been_there_done_that Says:
March 15th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
I moved here in 1981 just before my 6th birthday. We planned on buying 2000, but the prices in the neighborhood when up by 200,000 and they just kept going. According to RE we should have purchased homes when I was in high school or when I was 20… The only thing offered up to our generation is a crappy condo on landfill without good schools for our kids. No thanks.

Homeownership is much harder for those of us that are natives to obtain than it was for our parents and grandparents.

We would rather rent in this area than own a house any place else in the country. If we ever move again, we will move out of the country.

I remember when teachers could afford to purchase homes in the neighborhoods they taught in.
George Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 9:12 am
We have been here 3 months from a low cost real estate state. To us, we knew we would have sticker shock and have found the home prices to be 5x our home area. That’s right - we sold a 3,000 sq ft 1998 home with a 3 car detached garage on a BIG lot for $242,000 and a comparable home here would be at least $1.2M. We decided to rent here until the time to buy is right. It is amazing how many people here tell us that we should buy now before the market takes-off again. In my opinion that will be many, many years from know. I agree with a previous post about the poor quality of schools. We can’t believe the lack of financial resources the schools have and we are in the San Ramon Valley District which is supposed to be one of the best districts in the region. While the climate/attractions/regional beauty is incredible and the people are wonderful, We a household earning $200,000 per year and we can’t find a house in our price range that we would care to live-in. I still think a major home price correction is in order to bring the realty back to reality.
sg Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 10:17 am
3 1/2 yrs, moved from Pittsburgh, PA for a new job.
Instantly got a shock at the cost of living. There was an unusual heat wave too. It was Sept 2004, and the temp was well above 100F. So I almost had sunstroke. Later, of course, I have greatly liked the weather over here.

Hooked up some of my old friends, many of who were desperately attempting to jump on the bandwagon of buying homes (2004), or had already bought homes. It was amazing how 90% of them were advising me to buy a home (”at least a condo”) before I get priced out forever, and how home happened to be the best investment in the bay area. Through Google, I found Patrick.net and well, at least someone who agreed with me that time.

I knew in 2005 the prices were not sustainable.
I just cannot fathom the idea of having two double worker-bee wages as a _must_ in order to afford the mortgage of an ordinary house. It’s too risky. I would only buy a house when I can comfortably pay a fixed rate mortgage, if any, with a single wage.

At this moment, with sky high real estate price and not so good schools, this place does not seem like the best place to raise a family.

Some of my friends (not CEOs) did buy houses with single income families around 2005, with prices as high such as 750K. But now we all know how.
zanon Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 10:23 am
My wife and I moved here 2 years ago and we think it’s *great*.

We rented a small 1 BR/1BA in Boston with no parking in a nice part of town. It sold for about $500K when we left.

We now live in Palo Alto, have a *large* 2BR, 2BA, with a *massive* yard, two car parking, and we pay *less* in rent that we used to in Boston! Of course it would sell for $2M, but hey, we’re getting a huge deal : )

-zanon
R Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I moved here for grad school 7 years ago from Seattle. I honestly can’t believe how many people here think the Bay Area is the most fantastic, beautiful place in the world. Every even moderately affordable area is ugly, smog-ridden, features small houses (1200 sq. ft. is small everywhere but in the bay area) and terrible schools - all far subpar to Seattle (yes, even taking into account the weather), which I am not claiming is paradise - far from it. I guess I don’t see how people can call 95% of the Bay Area paradise with a straight face. I guess they have lived here for life and don’t have a basis for comparison. Small houses, small lots, no yards, traffic, smog, no water, and terrible schools hardly seems like paradise. While there are certainly a few nice areas in the Bay Area, all the houses cost 3+ million and you are still only a few minutes from the rest of the Bay Area. My gf and I make 200k+ combined yet, like George said, haven’t found anything we could afford (600k or less) that we would consider living in. 600k still only gets you a dump in a poor neighborhood. The Bay Area is still considerably overpriced (25% plus) and has several years of decline before buying becomes financially sensical. I will eventually buy a place and generally think the Bay Area is a good place to live, but those claim that now is a good time to buy because of how great the Bay Area is really need to get out. Was the NASDAQ a good buy at 4500 in 2000? I think not.
burbed Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
>My gf and I make 200k+ combined yet, like George said, haven’t found anything we could afford (600k or less) that we would consider living in.

Isn’t that because you’re practically just above poverty? I mean, most people reading this site make $150k on a single income.

If you’re not clearing $300k you really should consider leaving.
Must walk 2 work Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
I really want to thank George and G for injecting some reality from the perspective of new transplants. I agree completely with them. I’ve been here 3.5 months and I just don’t understand why people like the BA. I’m only here because I have an awesome job.
I mean, I take the Caltrain some days from SF to SJ and the view all the way down the peninsula is GRIM and depressing — and I’m from a RUST BELT city (yes, I’m “shouting”)
es-sunnyvale-renter Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I lived there 4 years, 2003-2007, and am planning to come back.

The reason being, the area I’m in, Chino Valley, Arizona, works out to be FAR FAR more expensive than the Bay Area. I’ll have to hustle all week to make the money I can make just on a Saturday in the Bay Area.

What I like is the ease of getting around. OK the bus sucks but we all know that. But with a bike and CalTrain, or a 150cc scooter, you’re king of the road, man!

Farmer’s markets are every day! Often more than one to choose from, every day! Out here, there’s a swapmeet, maybe 6 months of the year it’s not snowed in or something, and I’ll make the same as I’ll make at a weekday market in the BA.

Rents are about the same, pay out here sux. You end up working just to support your car, and have to work a 2nd job to eat. And you WILL freeze to death if not in good warm shelter 6 months of the year.

Yeah, parts of the BA are depressing, but I’d rather give that area another throw than spend the rest of my life doing nothing, on Welfare, out here.

And yeah, SJ is depressing, It’s OLD. OLD = Depressing to Americans. Yet, it’s cool. I love the old factories and the weird sign with the pig on it by Diridon Station. I like funky old stuff. Americans need to learn to treasure this old stuff, and treasure liveable cities. And if you can’t, come out to live in ex-suburbo-sprawl and you’ll find you can.
es-sunnyvale-renter Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Honestly, I think the whole West well, …. kinda sucks …. and it probably IS nicer east of the Appelacians. The whole East Coast with a few exceptions probably kicks ass.

But I’ll sure take the BA where I can make a living over horse’n'cow country where …. well … if I were rich I could move to town and get a job washing dishes!
PA Homeowner Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
In Palo Alto since the start of 2000. Homeowner for almost exactly 5 years - the people I was renting from sent me a letter and said buy the place or move. It turned out to be an excellent investment. My little house has doubled in value and my monthly mortgage is about what I was paying in rent. Its worked out well and I like living in Palo Alto.

My main issue is that it seems like every time I get friendly with people, they move away because they were renters and can’t buy here.
WhatSmog? Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
To the posters complaining about smog in the Bay Area, try the Peninsula. I live Belmont, and I can assure you there is no smog, the air is cool and clear as it blows in off the ocean on its way to bay.

The rest of your complaints may have some merit
es-sunnyvale-renter Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 7:40 am
‘nother report from horse and cow country ….. 36F, snow on the ground, and high winds. Wind chill probably about 20F.

Can’t work half of the year because of weather like this, and would have to work all week to make what I could make one Saturday in the bay area.
DensityDuck Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 9:41 am
I moved here from Pennsylvania in 2001. I strongly believe that people who trash the Bay Area’s weather and “pollution” have never actually lived anywhere else–or they moved here ten years ago and haven’t left, so they’ve forgotten what it’s like.

Seriously. 100 degrees is a “heat wave”? Try 100 degrees as a regular thing plus 95% humidity. That’s summer on the East Coast.

Traffic? Imagine if the major superhighways connecting huge cities were three lanes maximum–and two lanes for big parts of their length. Arterials are strictly one-lane affairs. Left turn? Forget it! It’s all “yield to oncoming traffic” and hope some kind soul gives you a chance to go. That’s how roads are built on the East Coast.

Jobs? Well, jobs can be found just about anywhere. But it is honestly true that if you’re in a technological field, California is better than just about anywhere else. There really is more going on out here. I’m not going to pretend like there’s nothing happening anywhere else, but it’s not true to pretend that nothing is happening here.

****

I would say that the biggest change–other than housing prices, obviously–is the composition of the commute lane. Back in 2001 it seemed as though at least half the vehicles using it were construction, landscaping, or delivery. These days it’s mostly actual commuters, although one-quarter to one-third are Priuses…
sj Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 9:42 am
“How long have you lived in the Bay Area?”

Too Long.
RoxBoy Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 10:21 am
I have lived in the BA for 23 years. I love everything about it. I hate people like yourself who moved to the BA and drive up the housing prices. Just kidding!

My brother bought a single family house in San Carlos for $300K back in 1991. I thought what an idiot. The house has a front yard, back yard, side yard, enough space to build a basketball court, and two swimming pools. You cant buy a house with that much space anymore in the BA.
mrbogue Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 11:46 am
I friggin’ love the Bay Area. Lets see, compared to the places i’ve been in..

London, UK: Hot in the summers, Rainy in the winters, nice city, but horribly expensive (unless you’re the MAN). People seemed blunt yet nice though.

Manhattan, NY (the mexico of Londoners): Hot in the summers, Rainy/Snowy in the winters, nice city, but pretty expensive (not as much as London I guess) and even if you’re mediocre wealthy you feel really poor here. Seems pretty diverse.

Florida: I dunno, it was friggin’ storming/hurricane/gail winds. Not desirable at the time.. But had some good Cuban sandwiches.

Philippines: HOT, HOT, HOT, and you can get robbed at knife point or jacked at almost every corner in the city at all hours of the day.

Thailand: In the cities: HOT as hell, smoggy as hell, and this was during the cool season. Food even at sit-down restaurants lacked cleanliness, found lots of bugs in my food (though cheap) alot of nose-picking/flipping in public places.

Taiwan: F*cking dirty, Smoggy, sometimes people smell bad. Somewhat Violent now in the cities.

Boston, MA: Being Asian I never felt racism in restaurants until I went to Italian Restaurants in this town. I guess Asians need to know their place in Boston. *NOT DESIRABLE*

Hawaii: Beautiful place, but not alot of jobs, pretty diverse (leaning toward lots of asians).

Texas: Dry and hot as hell. Good BBQ I suppose. They really love football down there, but i’m not a big football fan so…..

Indiana: Corn fields as far as the eye can see. Weather felt strangely like Thailand = bad.

Las Vegas, NV: Everytime i’ve been there its been hot as crap, and its just a desert town with a juicy dice rolling center. Weather sucks.

Reno, NV: Its like Vegas, but poor trailer park trashy.

Eugene, OR: The weather was nice, the coffee was good, the Pad Thai?? was good.. The weather was great (I was there during the summer) I guess this one was as close as the Bay Area it can get.. but I had the feeling there weren’t too many jobs, and didn’t feel it was very diverse.

Winnipeg, Manitoba: So cold you have to jump from one building to the next to stay warm, and when you wake up in the mornings the static literally lights up your bed like an amusement park at night.. creepy. The people are uber-friendly though.

Phoenix, AZ: F*cking HOT, nice city though.

Tahiti: I don’t speak french, the place is uber-expensive, and tahitians are somewhat xenophobic. They have some damn fine beach front property however, if you’re ready to drop $2MM for a sliver of land.

Anyhow compared to these places, the BA is still the perfect balance of quality weather, diversity, and employment. I’m not sure if its worth living anywhere else at this point.
Crossroads Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Uh, you just compared living in Manhattan with living in Cupertino.
sg Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
> Seriously. 100 degrees is a “heat wave”? Try 100 degrees as a regular thing plus 95% humidity. That’s summer on the East Coast.

I think some people are tolerant to humidity than dry heat.

To be fair, I had a month long trip to Sweden before coming over. So it hit harder than expected. Also, I did not expect that high heat in Sept. Later, I realized Sept is the warmest month in the Bay area.
The weather is great out here overall, at least in the Peninsula. There is not doubt.

However, for me, the weather does not decide the place where I would prefer to live, financial stability and standard of living do.
mrbogue Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
crossroads: hmm. i’m not too fond of cupertino either. isn’t SFO the real bay area??
islandboy Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Great topic, burbed.

I’ve been here 10 years, coming from Seattle. Like many here, I thought the Bay Area is overrated. But fine weather has a way of becoming a habit that you can’t kick. As nice as Seattle is, I don’t think I can deal with its fall/winter/spring weather anymore. Too damn depressing. Every time it rains here, I remember why I can’t move back to Seattle.

Of course, there are other nice things about the BA. I won’t bother to list them all.

We’re lucky to have entered the housing market in the pre-bubble 2003. To start now would be tougher, but now is certainly a better time than 2006 or 2007. As long as you plan to live here for a long time, the market fluctuation shouldn’t be much of a factor in your decision.

PA Homeowner has a great point. One downside of living here is watching friends move away because they can’t afford to buy a good home. Although we’re also lucky to see friends moving here because it is a pretty nice place after all.
islandboy Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Suzy Orman (I can’t believe I’m quoting her) has this saying, “People first, then money, then things.” In this case, home ownership (or living in the BA) falls under “things.” I would never jeopardize my financial stability just to live here, but as long as I can afford it, I’d rather live here than most (if not all) other places.
Brendan Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
To all the people who moved here and don’t like it: LEAVE. That is the reason why house prices suck so bad here! It’s all the damn people that hate it that won’t move away.

I was born and raised in the bay area. Almost 32 years. What has changed? Well the roads now suck, house prices suck, and schools are worse than they used to be. In 1997 my parents moved to a place in san ramon, paid 220k for it. Now the same houses sell for about 650+ maybe a little less now.

The problem is with all the damn people moving here. Get the F@#$ out if you don’t like it!
Wowzee Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
mrbogue - I liked the list. Yeah I thought Eugene, OR is very nice too. I might have to move there someday.

The best place I’ve seen though is Granada, Spain, at least if you don’t need a job. It seems that anywhere in Spain you can get better coffee than I’ve ever had in the US. Even at a gas station in the countryside (really, even that place had a huge espresso machine). Orange juice is almost always fresh squeezed, and in general the food is fantastic. But the best city there is Granada, where one out of four women could stand in for Salma Hayek. I could stand the heat for that.
Renter4 Says:
March 17th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
>>Get the F@#$ out if you don’t like it!

Juuuuust let me finish salting away this here down payment on an East Coast house… But my departure won’t do you any good. There’s a sucker born every minute. My brother and his girlfriend are visiting. One walk around the GG Bridge and they’re all googly-eyed, “We gotta move here! It’s so beautiful! The weather’s so lovely!”

I tried to explain to them where CA school funding ranks on the national scale. In one ear and out the other. And of course, if I had the money to live on the Marina and not worry about any of that, I would, without hesitation.
tenspeedsf Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 9:46 am
I moved here from New York City on Feb 28, 1998. My rent was $725 in New York, and I moved into a Burlingame apartment that was about the same size for $1100. Then I was laid off from the job that brought me out here in the first place, and I lost all of the stock options I would have gotten if I could have stuck it out 2 months longer. As I soon learned, people were (and are still) far less professional here than in New York. Within a year, I had signed three employment contracts only to have them rescinded days before I was supposed to start the jobs. Fortunately, there are plenty of things to do in the Bay Area when you’re underemployed and broke. I spent a lot of days on my bike and on the beaches south of HMB.

I had always thought that the loss of those stock options were a temporary set-back. (I only let myself do the math once; I think I “lost” between $600-700k.) But my life would be so much different now. My husband and I spent this past weekend looking for houses in Portland, OR. We are immensely sad that we have to leave the Bay Area, but there’s no way we can afford a house here. Suze Orman can say all she wants about putting people first (see comment 29), but I shouldn’t assume that my friends in the Bay Area are going to help fund my retirement because I spent my life throwing away money on rent so I could stay geographically close to them. We already have a small network of ex-Bay Area friends in Portland and Seattle, and I would bet that the non-Googles amongst us will move away, too. (This should make Brendan pretty happy.) I mean, it’s pretty great here– but we’ll have plenty of money with which to visit San Francisco (and give our kid a good education) when we’re only paying $2k/month on our Portland mortgage.

Anyway… just my two cents. Now back to my poverty-level (under $150k/year) job…
been_there_done_that Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
We moved away so we could be homeowners, but we found out that homeownership was not worth leaving a place we love. Our lives are far more richer here than they were in Texas. I’m not a fan of the other cities that bay area people flock to like Denver, Portland and Seattle. Life is short and you can not take your house with you when you die, you can only take your experiences.
madhaus Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
I have lived here since I graduated college in the early 1980s, but grew up on the East Coast. I hated the weather and I hated the provincialism there. Everyone assumes because you are from W ethnic group and went to X college that you will hang out with people in Y club and Z health club. Not for me. I remember a snowstorm that hit my college in April. Snowing in flipping April!

I moved to San Francisco, and after a couple of years wanted to buy a place, but couldn’t afford anything in the city. Bought in the East Bay, commuted on BART, then eventually got a job in Silicon Valley, rented in a lot of places. I usually rented in group houses because I just hate apartment life and don’t like sharing walls with strangers.

Bought a house in Sunnyvale and got married 10 days apart. We bought trying to manage the best school district we could afford — Palo Alto was unaffordable except the area in the South, which was full of tiny Eichlers, we couldn’t touch Los Altos, and no detached homes we could afford in Saratoga, so Cupertino district was next, and Sunnyvale is a better run city and has plenty houses in CUSD.

1993 was a great time to buy — prices still depressed after the collapse in 1991, we didn’t have a lot of competition for our place.

What I love about the Bay Area. The weather. People are nicer than New York and New Jersey people. You can enjoy outdoors the whole year. No snow or ice. I can wear sandals 10 months a year. Lots of smart people to talk to. Plenty of tech jobs in the Valley.

The downsides — yes, the schools suck and all those selfish jerks who voted for Prop 13 are the people to thank for it. You want good schools, get rid of Prop 13, it’s killing schools. Also the Prop that required 2/3 vote on bonds, that one is killing civic spending too. Back east the property taxes are 3-4 times as high as they are here, so of course the schools are better. Since we’ve lived in the same house since ‘93, our taxes are less than half what someone moving in today would pay.

Traffic? Make me laugh, I grew up right outside New York City, this traffic is NOTHING.

I am staying here, even if I did’nt own a house. Whether my kids choose to stay, we’ll see when they’re older.
Crossroads Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Our lives are far more richer here than they were in Texas.

Nothing says richer like only being able to afford eating PB&J and Ramen!
Crossroads Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
1993 was a great time to buy — prices still depressed after the collapse in 1991, we didn’t have a lot of competition for our place.

If I were you I’d encourage more people to move here - join a civic group or something. You need more people to pay the property taxes that you’re not pay due to Prop 13.

Ah to have a time machine.
been_there_done_that Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
There is more than one way to define rich. I personally don’t need a lot of money and things to make me happy, I certainly don’t need to break my back or my soul to be a home owner.
“I’m not sure if its worth living anywhere else” [Burbed.com] Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 5:59 am
[...] Over the weekend I asked for people’s thoughts about living in the Bay Area. This comment right here is proof why real estate prices have no choice but to double in the next decade. Check it out: How long have you lived in the Bay Area? [Burbed.com] [...]
Mouser Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 7:57 am
Relocated from OC to BA after college. It has been 12 years and I will continue counting. Been to many fine cities around the world, saw many things that others do so much better than we do here, but I still come back. There are plenty to complain about, but honestly, I can’t think of another place that I rather be at this point in life. This isn’t a me-too place. There isn’t another that can compete with the great combination of weather/diversity/jobs/natural beauty.
vfsv Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:06 am
Then again, you need to LIVE in some type of domicile here & that an extra issue. Please see,
“Ah… the joys of renting” at:
http://www.viewfromsiliconvalley.com/id400.html

Thanks!
SantaClarite Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:16 am
Bay Area is to USA just as USA is to The world.

(That’s called an analogy, Now that SAT has removed analogies because dumb American kids cannot understand them, I am not sure how many people understand it, some people like RealEstater might have to look it up in the dictionary.)

Anyway, compared to the rest of the US of A, the people in the West are nouveau riche and arrogant because of this tech wealth.

Similarly people in the USA are nouveau riche compared to Europe. Americans completely lack culture, manners or dress sense.

I’ve lived in Asia; Chicago, Austin and The Real Bay Area. We plan to live in NYC for a while and then settle down in one of London, Singapore or Dubai. They are real cities and better places to bring up a family.
islandboy Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 9:47 am
tenspeedsf Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Now back to my poverty-level (under $150k/year) job…

C’mon, nobody who makes $150k/yr should be whining, when so many people around here are working multiple jobs to make ends meet.

madhaus Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
I remember a snowstorm that hit my college in April. Snowing in flipping April!

I once went to school in NY. When I try to leave at the end of the school year (in May), my flight was snowed in. I got bussed to another airport, but the plane wasn’t there because of snow. So I spent that night at the airport. All of this in mid-May!

SantaClarite Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 8:16 am
We plan to live in NYC for a while and then settle down in one of London, Singapore or Dubai. They are real cities and better places to bring up a family.

Wow, SF is not a real city? I’ve never heard one that before.

Good luck buying a house in London. If you think it’s expensive here, you’re in for a shock.
mrbogue Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Island Boy Says:

Good luck buying a house in London. If you think it’s expensive here, you’re in for a shock.

Tell me about it, I was taking a look at Kensington/London the other day
(where I stayed at mostly, and what the locals seem to call “the French ghetto???”),
the area seemed pretty nice, kind of like Palo Alto/Oakland-Rockridge type area.
Its around 3 million pounds for a 1BR flat, but you can also find cheaper leaseholds,
i’m not sure if Bay Area real estate has ever gone that route yet (99 year leasehold, etc.)
I guess we should be happy that though we are priced out, if we can afford we can atleast
*own* something with a home purchase.

As for manners, I remember getting shoved over by passing people several times in London. In
the middle of the night, drunk french tourists passing by my hotel would yell like no tommorow
in the middle of the street. Also, some Europeans seemed to *not* shower properly, this was
esspecially apparent in the crowded “tube”. I don’t care if you’re smartly dressed with the latest
designer suits or dresses, funk is funk in my book. I’ve lived in the Bay Area all my life,
and never noticed these problems with manners or funk (except for the occassional European
tourist, etc.). Yeah yeah, the Euro is b*tch-slapping the dollar all the way to the moon lately,
but I still remember talking to a taxi driver in London one night:

Taxi Driver: So where are you from?
mrbogue: The San Francisco Bay Area?
Taxi Driver: Hmmm.. that sounds nice, I always wondered, what is the weather like out there?
mrbogue: Its fine, pretty sunny most of the time.
Taxi Driver: How many days of sunshine per year would you say?
mrbogue: I dunno (typical american hick talk) 3/4 of the year?
Taxi Driver: Sounds nice. I’m thinking about going out there.
mrbogue: Yes you should, but I think London is better isn’t it?
Taxi Driver: No, its always raining and its quite dear to live here?
mrbogue: dear, what does that mean?
Taxi Driver: dear, as in expensive…

Oh yeah Btw, if you think folks in the Bay Area are arrogant, Singapore is *FILLED* with arrogant wealthy
self-righteous *ssh*les. If you think otherwise, you probably haven’t met many singaporeans.
sg Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:31 am
When people get settled at a place, they start liking the area. When I first moved in here, I felt like completely out of place. Slowly, I have gotten comfortable.

Go to any metropolitan area, you will find the majority of long-term residents liking the place. It’s true virtually anywhere. And there is nothing wrong with it.
For example, majority of people from SoCal I know, don’t like BA at all. They find it “boring”.

A few of my friends from NJ showed interest in relocation because of the weather. But they changed their mind after I informed them about gas and home prices over here.
sg Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:36 am
The UK has another housing bubble. It’s only a matter of time before it falls apart.

Having said that, majority of current Londoners are really rich foreigners, from Middle East and Russia.

London is also a big city, much more than San Francisco.
Palo Alto or Cupertino are suburbs. Ask a rich oil tycoon from ME if he has heard about Cupertino.

Please don’t compare Apples and Oranges.
been_there_done_that Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:49 am
From SantaClarite: “Anyway, compared to the rest of the US of A, the people in the West are nouveau riche and arrogant because of this tech wealth.

Similarly people in the USA are nouveau riche compared to Europe. Americans completely lack culture, manners or dress sense.”

Hello pot, meet kettle.
been_there_done_that Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 10:57 am
To answer the second post in this thread, the bay area is the only place in the US worth living *for me*. It is the only place in the US that offers me everything that I want in my life. The only places I would ever desire to move to outside of the US are northern Germany and Vancouver Canada. Not because they are the best places in the world, but because they are the best fit for me.

I have lived in 3 countries and 2 other states and visited nearly all the other states and several countries. I love traveling and seeing other places and getting to know the locals in order to see the place through the local lens but I like coming home to the bay area.

I certainly do not believe that the bay area is inherently superior to other places, nor do I feel that any group of people is superior to another.
sonarrat Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Crossroads: the market is crashing enough with Prop. 13 in place. Take that away and half the Bay Area will turn into a ghost town overnight, because that’s the only way long-time residents can afford to stay here. It would cause an instantaneous, mass revaluation of the entire housing stock, because our low property tax rates and caps on increases are both a big lure and a strong incentive to stay put.
sg Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
> because that’s the only way long-time residents can afford to stay here.

Which is mainly why long-term residents love this place so much.

This is true anywhere in California. Residents in every place in California think their place is special.
From:
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/news/0803/gallery.real_stories/8.html
>>
People are still lining up to purchase entry-level properties, and paying absurd amounts, up to $700 per buildable square foot. And this is not an ocean view, just plain Main Street type land. When I ask them why, they still say it’s the Palisades and it can’t go down.
<<
Seth Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
First, let me say that I am a Bay Area native. I was born in San Francisco, grew up in Marin County, Contra Costa County, and Santa Clara County (yes, my parents moved around a lot! Hard to put down roots, but I digress…)

The fact that this is an awesome place to live is not new. It’s been an awesome place to live my whole life. So why the *hell* has it gone so crazy over the last ten years? I don’t know, but it pisses me off. It’s true that real estate prices here were always around 2x higher than the national average, but not 3.5x to 5x higher like they are today.

Yes, this is my favorite place on earth. I’ve lived briefly in upstate New York, Connecticut, and Boston, and there is no comparison, the Bay Area is home, the perfect environment. But I’ve given up. I can’t live here. My parents sold their house and moved to a little town in Humboldt County years ago, so I have no family home to inherit. Despite having a great career and a wonderful salary, I cannot ever hope to buy a house here. So I’ve made my five year plan to get out of dodge and move to the midwest, somewhere I can actually afford. I won’t like the weather, but at least I can put down roots somewhere that isn’t hostile to home buyers.

And if this is the way the Bay Area is going, it’s not going to be a very nice place in another decade anyway.
madhaus Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Yes, Prop 13 allows people who already bought a house to keep it. Who cares if it destroys every school system in the state? Who cares if our kids aren’t educated enough to get high-paying tech jobs so they can afford to buy here and live near us?

I love the Bay Area, but Prop 13 has got to go, and if it takes the short-sighted selfish jerks with it, good. Put in an exemption for retired/disabled people on fixed incomes under a certain percentage of poverty level (say 500%) and to hell with everyone else. I will gladly pay prop taxes on what my house is worth if it means my kids’ schools aren’t begging us for tissues, pencils, and the like and can’t afford art, music, PE, or theater.
DreamT Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
So the thread veered off to a new topic - is the BA the perfect place to live. Of course it depends who you are, where you come from, what you do, how old you are, the kind of community you like, your thirst for nature or for busy city-feel, your intolerance to weather changes…

To me the Bay Area is a place that mutates very rapidly. It requires high tolerance to continually rapid, major changes. Entire neighborhoods change composition within a few years. You are expected to learn and adapt to a new kind of job every now and then, and you are competing with bright people imported from all around the world. History is almost irrelevant because it was about different industries, different cultures, people whose children moved away. The people empowered to continue leading that BA History now are largely recent immigrants (one generation at most). So the past tells us precious little about where the BA is headed. If you think otherwise, consider it a telling sign that you’re probably too old to live here.

It’s also this place that sits on a couple of earthquake timebombs, which I guess makes us suicidal, masochistic, blissful idiots or all of the above.
Oliverks Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
I think the south bay is one of the most crappy places on earth. OK that’s an exaggeration, but lets look at the facts.

It polluted, it has bad traffic, it is expensive, the weather is not that great (try San Diego or LA), the schools stink, the ratio of culture to money is so pathetic it makes Toledo seem like Paris, it’s not that beautiful. The airport is a frickin joke. For world class restaurants you have one (Manresa’s). The symphony is worse than a pre-school’s in Moscow. Where did that art museum come from, Peoria? The infrastructure is falling apart, the architecture is abysmal. Everyone is so obsessed about working that most people are pretty boring.

So why don’t I move? I did, and God am I glad I don’t live in the south bay anymore. It is a truly wretched place.
sj Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 8:32 am
24 - obviously hasn’t lived in any of the places he’s spouting about. It’s ok with me though, please stay in the bay area where you belong. Remember, nothing exists outside of the bay area.
tenspeedsf Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Islandboy says: “C’mon, nobody who makes $150k/yr should be whining, when so many people around here are working multiple jobs to make ends meet.”

First of all, I wasn’t whining.

Second of all, I said my below poverty-level job paid UNDER $150k. As in $110k under $150k. Do the math; that’s $40k. Priced out forever doesn’t even begin to describe my situation.
islandboy Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Oliverks Says:
March 19th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
I think the south bay is one of the most crappy places on earth. OK that’s an exaggeration, but lets look at the facts.

Please tell, where did you move to? I’m guessing it must have more world class restaurants, better weather, less pollution and less traffic. I can’t think of a place like that, so please enlighten us.
islandboy Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:21 am
tenspeedsf Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Islandboy says: “C’mon, nobody who makes $150k/yr should be whining, when so many people around here are working multiple jobs to make ends meet.”

First of all, I wasn’t whining.

Are you sure? Didn’t you write, “Wah, wah wah, I ‘lost’ all my stock options and only make >$100k/yr?”

If you want sympathy for lost stock options, I only have one thing to say, “get in line.”

Honestly, I empathize with your situation. But owning a home is not the end all, and Portland is a beautiful city with a very high strip clubs per capita (I say that as a good thing). Although many people do make less money than you and your husband (I assume he’s not a house-husband) and live here comfortably, granted they don’t have a mansion.
sg Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
I agree with Oliverks. I go to south bay (i.e., south of Mountain View) only to visit friends. I think it’s fine for a married couple, of course _iff_ the housing cost goes down. For a single person, it’s a hellhole irrespective of the housing cost.

I had a few occasions to visit Costco stores in Sunnyvale and San Jose. Couldn’t believe how cramped and crowded it was. People were rude out there.
sg Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
islandboy,

First, you wrote “when so many people around here are working multiple jobs to make ends meet”

Next, you wrote “Although many people do make less money than you and your husband (I assume he’s not a house-husband) and live here comfortably, granted they don’t have a mansion.”

They kinda contradict. What in your opinion, is the minimum family income to lead a “comfortable” living according to your definition in the bay area? This is not a rhetorical question. I wanted to check your opinion. Keep in mind, what you consider comfortable may not be the same for someone else.
islandboy Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
sg, fair question. I think a family with 150K income can buy an average house. A family with 100K can buy a small house (think 2bd/1ba) or condo, although they may be better off renting. If tenspeedsf makes 110K, and her husband works, they should make well over 150K.

150K per family is roughly 90K after fed/ca taxes, SS, medicare, or 7500/mo. If you buy a house with a 750K loan at 6.5%, your PITI is roughly 4700 + 800 property tax = 5500. After tax benefits on interest and property tax, which is roughly a 30% discount, your per month housing expense is roughly $4000. That leaves you 3500/mo to play, eat, shop, save.

With salary increases and inflation, that payment will become more comfortable over time.

I’m not saying that’s exactly what I would do, But it wouldn’t be outrageous or irresponsible as long as that family is planning to stay in the house long term.

By the way, by “people working multiple jobs to make ends meet,” I was mainly referring to immigrants who work multiple restaurant jobs, not people with six figure incomes.
islandboy Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
One more thing, there’s no doubt that living here is more expensive than most other places in the country. If you don’t feel it’s worth it, I would encourage you to consider moving. That being said, I think many people on burbed tend to exaggerate how bad things are here, and fantasize about how great things are in other cities.

Ok, I’m finished.
Bad Advice Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Nice going omitting San Diego or (dare I say) Washington DC.

Let’s see, San Diego has (a) better beaches, (b) better weather, (c) cheaper housing, (d) less traffic (marginal), (e) a better zoo, (f) better wildlife park, (g) better baseball team. It has a decent high tech base as well.

D.C.? Much better housing prices, more diversity (especially with the Europeans living there), better kayaking (on the Potomac with the Olympic team), better rock climbing (gorges near Great Falls), good mountain biking, better beaches (though farther)–the Shore, better culture (National Gallery of Art, Young Benefactors of the Smithsonian, Kennedy Center). Better ultimate frisbee scene (WAFC).

I’d go back to DC if I didn’t have other anchors here.

It’s easy to compare Bay Area to crap but throw it up against the other big boys and it’s a wash.
sg Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
> That being said, I think many people on burbed tend to exaggerate how bad things are here, and fantasize about how great things are in other cities.

People comment on housing here.
The fact that the housing cost in the BA is extremely out of whack with salary is _NOT_ a bit exaggerated, and the majority except RE (and you, probably) disagree with it.

People, who like living in BA, do for other reasons. Housing is definitely not one of them. This is probably true in most of the coastal CA.
I personally have nothing much whine about BA except the housing.
I am stuck with a good job (which even in six figures, is still not enough to have a decent place to live), and my career is more valued than housing right now.

Yes, I do plan to move when housing and quality of life become the number one issue in my life and things still remain unaffordable for me over here.
islandboy Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Hey, hey, comparing me to RE is a low blow. I don’t shill for the real estate industry.

I would never, in a million years, say that housing is one of the things to love about the bay area. What bothers me is when people start saying s*** like south bay is the crappiest place on earth, or DC (murder capital) is a nicer place than the bay area, or housing is unaffordable unless you have Google options. All of which is 100% untrue.
Crossroads Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
D.C.? Much better housing prices, more diversity (especially with the Europeans living there), better kayaking (on the Potomac with the Olympic team), better rock climbing (gorges near Great Falls), good mountain biking, better beaches (though farther)–the Shore, better culture (National Gallery of Art, Young Benefactors of the Smithsonian, Kennedy Center). Better ultimate frisbee scene (WAFC).

My friends who mostly went to Cupertino and then went away to college at Cal all tell me that DC is boring and there’s nothing to do and the food is terrible.

Actually, DC refers to Daly City so really I meant to say Washington DC.

They may have the Mall, but we have the Great Mall.
sg Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
islandboy,

Take it easy. Oliverk did say it was an exaggeration. I am entitled to not to like South Bay, as much as you hate DC.

> housing is unaffordable unless you have Google options

Believe it or not, there is a big truth in here. Housing prices started going up during the NASDAQ bubble. I know as a fact, most of the people made close to 50% down payment from their stock options during that time.

Next, NASDAQ plunged, but the fed lowered the rate. That brought out the next generation homeowners, who, instead of options, relied on fancy financing to buy homes. I personally don’t know anyone other than early Google employees who bought his/her first home after 2003 with a fixed rate in the BA.

So yes, housing is now quite unffordable for most, unless you consider exotic financing.
Crossroads Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
150K per family is roughly 90K after fed/ca taxes, SS, medicare, or 7500/mo. If you buy a house with a 750K loan at 6.5%, your PITI is roughly 4700 + 800 property tax = 5500. After tax benefits on interest and property tax, which is roughly a 30% discount, your per month housing expense is roughly $4000. That leaves you 3500/mo to play, eat, shop, save.

Well you might not get property tax deduction because of AMT. But that’s too hard to calculate. Anyway, subtract out another $15,500 for 401k… and now you have $2208/mo.

But wait… you financed $750k - let’s assume you put down 20% so the purchase price is $937k. Let’s not forget maintenance because… let’s face it, most houses around here are in sh*tty condition thanks to the Prop 13 owners. And lawn care. Let’s assume .5% a year (though usually they say to budget 1%).

Now you’re down to $1817 - or about $454 a week. For a family of 4.

I guess you could afford more than just ramen. But not much.

Hey but you have the Great Mall and Santa Cruz and the top quality public schools!
sg Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
You have to subtract at least $200 as the fuel cost for commuters. It may go up in future.
Oliverks Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Islandboy,

Everyone’s taste is different, but if you can’t imagine a place with better restaurants than the south bay, I recommend the following reasonably close locations:

1) SF
2) Berkeley
3) Carmel
4) LA (if you are brave enough to go there)

If you can’t imagine a place with less traffic, you need to work on your imagination.

If you can’t imagine better weather, try San Diego if you want temperate (BTW the restaurants down there are better than south bay too). I quite like seasons myself, so I don’t mind a certain amount of inclement weather. That opens up a whole range of options.

As soon as I could move, I looked at places inside and outside of CA. I had lived in Marin and Berkeley before and liked it. I also looked in Oregon (Eugene, Portland, and Corvalis). I also looked at Eureka, Ukiah (ick that’s worse than SJ), and southern WA. Of all the places (except Ukiah), I would happily chose them over SJ. In the end though I chose the Monterey bay area and I am happy with choice.

So I am not anti bay area, I just think that South Bay people should get a grip. It’s not that great, in fact, I would gladly move to some place like Oberlin in OH than San Jose if I had to make a choice.

Oliver
Name Says:
March 20th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Islandboy,

You seem to have misread what ‘tenspeedsf’ said. They said their income is $110K *less* than $150K, i.e. their income is $40K.

How are they going to afford a home in the Bay Area on that?

And you have a very distorted notion of income. The average Bay Area income in 2006 was $35K, the median *household* income in 2006 was $71K. See:

http://www.bayareacensus.ca.gov/bayarea.htm
been_there_done_that Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 3:27 pm
You couldn’t pay me a million dollars to live in San Diego. The air quality is terrible in San Diego. I get sick every time I go there because of it.

I love San Diego, we try to vacation there once a year but my lungs don’t like pollution.

DC- not a place for me, I don’t like humidity.
L. Opine Says:
March 21st, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Why are BA people so obsessed with restaurants? You can’t find anything to eat for under $25 a head per meal. That’s 3 days’ worth of food for me.
$150k income, $750k mortgage - thoughts? [Burbed.com] Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 5:48 am
[...] $150k income, $750k mortgage - thoughts? How long have you lived in the Bay Area? [Burbed.com] [...]
Target-Addict Says:
March 22nd, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Dear Burbed:
in regards to your repeated request to comment on “How Long have you Lived in the Bay Area” — specifically in regards to what mrbogue Says:
March 17th: “I friggin’ love the Bay Area….compared to the places i’ve been in..” (insert long list of places visited…)>> I was the first person to respond to your original post. And I have visited ALL the same places that ‘mrborgue’ has, with the exception of Tahiti. And I can tell you this: I vividly remember my elders (Italian immigrants) telling me “this is God’s country”. THAT is why they settled here. Ironically, they first arrived in NYC and made their way to Menlo Park NEW JERSEY, and then eventually found their way to the REAL Menlo Park (here in California). I can’t tell you how many times heard that growing up…that this is the promised land, the land of milk and honey, blah blah blah. And it wasn’t until I grew up and had traveled the world that I realized, heck YEAH, this place is pretty darn special.

March 15, 2008

How long have you lived in the Bay Area?

75 Responses to “How long have you lived in the Bay Area?”

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