May 29, 2008

“California ranks toward the bottom of the barrel”

Top Suburbs To Live Well – Forbes.com
School quality and crime are obvious indicators. School rankings come from Department of Education data on graduation rates, per-pupil spending and student-to-teacher ratio. By most measures of school quality, California ranks toward the bottom of the barrel

And that, my friends, is why it’s essential that you buy a place in Palo Alto or Cupertino – so your kids can go to top part of the bottom of the barrel.

If you moved somewhere cheap like Northern New Jersey, then your kids might end up at the bottom part of the top of the barrel.

Isn’t it better to be at the top of the bottom than the bottom of the top? It makes Web 2.0 sense to me!

Comments (52) -- Posted by: burbed @ 4:41 am

52 Responses to ““California ranks toward the bottom of the barrel””

  1. bob Says:

    This is another one of these posts where all the kool-aide drinkers will stick their fingers in their ears and claim that ” well… it isn’t like that in Palo Alto.”

    I’ve mentioned this before, but the truth of the matter is that in order to get your kiddies into a ‘good’ school in the BA, or what would usually be considered a run-of-the-mill decent school in 75% of the country, you will have to shell out a massive amount of dough. Even that isn’t a guarantee. I live in a fairly well-to-do East Bay neighborhood and the school just got a $4 million dollar cut. No more gym, tennis, art, or music classes. That and a number of faculty will be cut. The solution so far seems to be bake sales, vicious protests from parents ( understandably since a bad school system brings down their property values), and reams of stories in the papers.

    Yet as we speak, my Mom just got a new transfer to a school outside of Knoxville that is brand-new, built for the additional students moving in, and has additional extracurricular programs that are pre-college type classes in addition to the standard gym, art, music, singing, and sports activities. In other words, the plain ole’ state-run public school system where my Mom works is in most cases better than some of the private schools in Palo Alto costing 10k a year or more.

    I don’t plan on having kids, but even if I did, I can’t imagine why you would want to raise them here when they could easily get everything they could possibly want somewhere else at a better quality. I sometimes wonder if the parents who fight tooth and nail around here to get their kids into the ‘best’ school systems have ever asked their kids if they really want to live here.It isn’t about the kids. It’s about the parents.

  2. tenspeedSF Says:

    Every year around this time, scores of San Mateo parents wait in line for 3-4 days outside the “best” elementary school hoping to enroll their kiddies into its kindergarten class. This what paying property taxes on million-dollar homes gets you?

    I’m not even sure I’m going to have a kid, but I’m already planning my escape. I’m not drinking the Kool Aid. Fahgetaboutit.

  3. bob Says:

    Same thing out here. You’ll see parents sitting in lawn chairs out on the curb all weekend waiting to enroll their tots. The school itself was “upgraded” a few years ago-complete with new trailers. The old building is from the 30′s.

    Most of my friends who have kids had to get them into some sort of lottery in order to get into kindergarten. I’ve never lived anywhere where parents just about knock each other out just to have what is seriously a given in most other areas across the country.

  4. Crossroads Says:

    Which schools are these in San Mateo? What happens if they don’t get in? Do they simply not go to kindergarten?

  5. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    I’ve heard in Palo Alto that some of the kids simply aren’t allowed in their neighborhood schools because they are “full” and the parents have to drive them to other schools up to 5-6 miles away. They don’t keep siblings together, either. Then they ding you for huge “voluntary” contributions to the PTA or whatever.

    Cupertino district also has overflow schools. And I’ve heard Monte Vista high isn’t taking everyone even those who live in its boundaries.

    This is not about the parents. It’s about the selfish jerks who brought us Prop 13 and ruined our school systems. California was not always at the bottom of the barrel, we used to be at the top. Thanks a lot.

    Burbed mentioned Northern NJ (where I just spent 4 days). NJ spends more per kid than any other state. They have band in elementary school, and all those other great enrichment programs. bob, you should know that art and music have been cut from most elementary programs for years here because of Prop 13. The only reason my kids’ school has it is because of parent fundraising.

  6. Pralay Says:

    I’ve never lived anywhere where parents just about knock each other out just to have what is seriously a given in most other areas across the country.
    ———

    Knocking other parents? Damn! My parents had to do it in India to enroll me in a good school. Do I have to do that for my kids too (if happens at all)- in C-A-L-I-F-O-R-N-I-A? My father must be laughing at me “Is that all you achieved after moving to other side of the planet – standing in line for your kids enrollment?” :)

  7. Crossroads Says:

    >Then they ding you for huge “voluntary” contributions to the PTA or whatever.

    huh? How does this work?

    is there a wiki that describes how to enroll into a public school around here? this is rather complicated.

    lines. voluntary donations. dings.

    help please.

  8. Pralay Says:

    The only reason my kids’ school has it is because of parent fundraising.
    ——–

    And I am not sure how long it will continue. One my friends’ kid goes to one of the schools in Mission district (Fremont). I think it is similar program – having some extra art classes by taking money from parents. They are complaining that this year there is no such program for their kid because existing teachers are stretched out and no money to hire new teacher.

  9. burbed Says:

    If someone would like to write up a guide to Bay Area Schools: How to get in, How to donate, etc, I’d be more than happy to feature it.

  10. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    Every district has their own rules, and some districts have alternative schools with even more quirks, plus there’s the rules on trying to enroll in a public school either not in your neighborhood or across school district lines. That’s a whole bloody website if you want to cover the entire RBA.

    I can tell you about most of CUSD but not having done the high school thing yet, I’d have to research a bit.

  11. rick Says:

    There is really a lot of good things in the bay area, that is why most of us are still here (I guess). But high housing prices is probably the major turn-off, and I think everybody can agree to that (except the troll).

  12. Natasha Says:

    We’re also bottom of the barrel in terms of air quality(http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/show_story.php?id=7898) and airports (http://news.cheapflights.com/airlines/2008/05/passenger-satis.html)

  13. california resident Says:

    Prop 13 caused this all?! What koolaid have you been drinking? Maybe the state is broke because state employees get paid too much and have platinum plated retirement benefits that virtually NO private sector workers get.

    Or, maybe the local governments are broke because they pay firefighters and police officers $150,000/yr and then they have to pay these “public safety” workers HUGE amounts of cash in retirement.

    Face it, government spending is out of control starting with the salaries and benefits paid to government workers. Prop 13 was necessary because the state wanted to rape the taxpayers.

    Well, we live in a democracy and the citizens make up the rules. As long as the citizens of California continue to elect stupid Democrats to the state legislature, we can expect more cutbacks to government services.

    But of course look what liberal democrats have done for the world–they’ve outlawed plastic grocery bags in San Francisco!

    I get all warm and fuzzy just thinking about that!

  14. bob Says:

    Well… Bay Area teachers certainly don’t make fantastic money. My mom makes around $47,000 per year as a teacher in her state. But the avg pay in the Bay Area is around $58,000, which is crazy considering that the cost of living is 4 times as great here.

    In regards to Prop 13, how do you explain the fact that there is a clearly defined point of decline in education quality,rising housing costs, and infrastructural decay that began almost as soon as Prop 13 was passed? Clearly it serves as no benefit to the state. Many leading economists have indicated that Prop 13 is California’s thorn in the side.

  15. rick Says:

    california resident,
    We’ve had this debate before. The money has to come from somewhere doesn’t it? If homeowner does not pay their fair share then other taxpayers have to make up the difference.

    Plus, you cannot refuse to pay tax because there are all kinds of problems in the government can’t you? I sure would like my tax to be freezed to my paid 20 years ago, heck let your children pay for their own school.

  16. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    That’s exactly what Howard Jarvis’ people wanted, let the children pay for their own school. They hate public education because it allows brown people to get ahead. Can’t allow that. Next thing you know they’ll be demanding that real estate with restrictive covenants (like White Protestants Only) be disallowed.

    Remember, an uneducated workforce is a compliant workforce!

  17. Pralay Says:

    Or, maybe the local governments are broke because they pay firefighters and police officers $150,000/yr
    ———–

    It depends. Many cities figured out that paying already-employed firefighter/police for overtime (and overtime rate is higher) is less expensive than hiring new firefighters and police. One less person to pay for health insurance, life insurance etc.

  18. california resident Says:

    Californians already pay the highest tax on gas/diesel (about $.45/gal), the highest sales tax in the nation, and our State income tax rates are among the highest as well.

    Our state is broke and Prop 13 will never be repealed by the voters. California is in decline due to the outrageous cost of living and you might all believe that it’s worth living in the RBA more than any place else in the country, but you’re only fooling yourself.

    Other states get along just fine with a fraction of the taxes that we pay here in California. If other states aren’t broke, why can’t California manage on our already high tax rates?

    Oh, I forgot, it’s different here. What’s good enough for Iowa isn’t good enough for California. We need to pay police officers in San Francisco $175,000 a year! We need to pay CalTrans workers $100,000/yr as well.

    And the politicians wonder why the public is so out of touch with reality.

    Just like most of you fools here on this board.

  19. california resident Says:

    –”But the avg pay in the Bay Area is around $58,000, which is crazy considering that the cost of living is 4 times as great here.”–

    Well, what should we do here? I have the answer! We’ll double teachers salaries to $116,000/yr and pay for it by taxing everyone!

    You obviously are a Democrat. There’s another solution. Teachers who don’t think that $58,000/yr isn’t enough can move to another state.

    I don’t get paid a whole lot more than that but since I work in the private sector, we can’t raise our salaries by taxing people. Wow, wouldn’t it be great if ALL companies could just raise their employee salaries by sending out tax notices to their neighbors!

    Obviously you can’t see the forest for the trees. You and your fellow Democrats ARE the problem.

    If the cost of living in the RBA or L.A. cannot be sustained by the local economy, then the cost of living will go down. It’s simple economics.

    I think that this housing bubble has something to do with economics–remember?

  20. Pralay Says:

    Teachers who don’t think that $58,000/yr isn’t enough can move to another state.
    —–

    CA resident,
    Teachers, doctors – they all are moving out from expensive places like SF bay area.

    Do you mean to say that the salary is the problem? Hmmm. I never knew that the high home price in San Francisco is due to all the teachers. They are buying homes left and right in Palo Alto, Cupertino and making unaffordable for CEOs, executives, engineers and doctors.

  21. been_there_done_that Says:

    The problem with California is so complex and it is going to take a lot to fix the problems. There is no such thing as a simple solution to the problem. You have many immigrants and illegal immigrants, underfunding, corruption, social problems and just plain wasteful people making the decisions.

    The kids that do well in school are those who parents stay on top of the child’s education no matter which school they go to.

    We send our kids to private school.

    Natasha- I am not sure about the report that you are using in your post. In order to read the report in full detail to understand it you have to login or sign up. I would also like to see which counties were profiled, which ones weren’t and what their criteria was. From what I remember from my ecology and enviromental studies classes is that the air quality in the bay area overall is pretty good. The Environmental Defense’s report supports this.

    http://www.edf.org/documents/3983_dangerousdays.pdf

    Scroll down to the city rankings. There isn’t a bay area city on the list.

  22. Pralay Says:

    We need to pay police officers in San Francisco $175,000 a year!
    ————–

    I have to admit that I know nothing about SF police dept and their salary structures. Within $175K salary figure, how much is the base salary and how much they earn from overtime? Anybody has idea?

    If you really want to show that SF city is spending too much on all the employees in police dept, I think the correct comparison would be how much other (outside CA) cities with similar size of population spend on their police dept employees. Or some comparative stat like how much tax dollars go for very hundred or thousand city residents.

  23. rick Says:

    California resident,
    Haha, now you start calling people names. I will pass on that.

    Answer me, why Prop 13 people deserve to pay less than people who buy after them? I like the kind of fools just spin and get around a simple question.

  24. california resident Says:

    You guys are behind the times. This data is from the San Francisco Chronicle’s website:

    http://www.sfgate.com/data/

    >>>In the 2007 calendar year, the City and County of San Francisco had more than 8,000 employees with total pay over $100,000. Find out who they were, what departments they worked for and how much they made by searching the database below.

    Here’s a sampling of pay from the Police Department–it’s on the second page. These are not even the highest paid:

    LAMONT SUSLOW INSPECTOR III $212,113
    DOUGLAS MCEACHERN LIEUTENANT III $210,877
    EDWARD CHEUNG SERGEANT III $209,666
    ERNEST FERRANDO LIEUTENANT III $208,423
    NICOLE GREELY LIEUTENANT III $207,800
    MARTIN LALOR JR SERGEANT III $207,388
    JIMMIE LEW INSPECTOR III $207,062
    BRIAN SCHAFFER POLICE OFFICER III $205,734
    ROBERT YICK INSPECTOR III $205,605
    MICHAEL BECKER INSPECTOR III $204,874

    [There are 1784 records for the Police Department meaning that 1784 members of the SF Police Department made more $100,000 in 2007.]

    [random sample]

    Employee name SAM YUEN
    Title POLICE OFFICER
    Department Police Department
    Regular pay $87,954
    Overtime pay $69,621
    Other pay $20,595
    Total pay $178,170

    Employee name ANN MANNIX
    Title LIEUTENANT III
    Department Police Department
    Regular pay $123,555
    Overtime pay $33,534
    Other pay $19,423
    Total pay $176,512

    [This is the highest paid police officer in S.F.--he's not even the Chief]

    Citywide rank (total pay) 7
    Employee name MICHAEL GAYNOR
    Title INSPECTOR III
    Department Police Department
    Regular pay $108,226
    Overtime pay $124,713
    Other pay $32,276
    Total pay $265,215

    —————————————————
    You guys are making chump change compared to these guys. And, if their retirement is like all other government systems that I know of, their retirement pay will be based on their TOTAL compensation of the last years of their employment! So they’ll be getting paid more than their base salaries FOREVER all at taxpayer expense.

    You have to be an idiot to go to college when you’ll make peanuts compared to what a police officer will make!

    Let’s look at the bankrupt town of Vallejo.

    >>>During the calendar year 2007, there were 292 City of Vallejo employees who had total gross wages of $100,000 or more.

    [this is their top Fire Dept paid employees]

    Ivano G. Paoli Fire Department $350,212
    James L. Higgins Fire Department $251,094
    Lamonte K. Morris Fire Department $247,902
    Russell S. Sherman Fire Department $238,725
    Richard E. Mackenzie Fire Department $236,701
    John A. Barbuzano Fire Department $236,467
    Gordon C. Moncibais Fire Department $233,338
    Michael Kirchner Fire Department $229,317
    Gregory R. Falkenthal Fire Department $226,235
    Alphonzo L. Love Fire Department $223,933
    Michael Deroque Fire Department $222,755
    <<<<

    This is how careful the Vallejo Fire Department was with taxpayer money:

    “Vallejo’s fire union partied on city’s dime
    Carolyn Jones, Chronicle Staff Writer

    Wednesday, March 12, 2008

    While Vallejo’s finances were plunging faster than a roller coaster at the Six Flags amusement park, the city’s firefighters were going abalone diving, grilling tri-tip and drinking cocktails on the public’s dime, records show.

    Under their contract, the firefighters union has been allowed since 2003 to charge the city 600 hours a year – at a cost of more than $24,000 annually – for union activities that were approved by the union’s chief. The junkets included an annual Seafood Extravaganza at the fairgrounds, a 10-kilometer run ending with a party at the amusement park and a dunk tank at the Waterfront Festival.”

    “Vallejo’s base pay for firefighters is more than $80,000 a year. Last year, 21 of them topped $200,000 in salary and overtime, according to city payroll records.”

    From the Telegraph UK:

    “Vallejo’s municipal leaders signed off on exorbitant wage deals for its emergency services workers, whose salaries and benefits account for 80 per cent of the annual $89 million budget. The police captain earns more than $300,000 and a sergeant takes home $240,000. The average firefighter earns $171,000 and 10 senior officers were paid more than $200,000 each.”

    So fire fighters and police officer salaries and benefits account for 80% of Vallejo’s budget. Hmmm, I think that they definitely deserve a PAY INCREASE because you can’t possibly find ANYONE who would work these jobs for a mere $150,000/yr!

  25. california resident Says:

    Rick said:
    “Answer me, why Prop 13 people deserve to pay less than people who buy after them? I like the kind of fools just spin and get around a simple question.”

    Answer [from wikipedia but I don't think that any of this is incorrect]:

    —”Proposition 13, officially titled the “People’s Initiative to Limit Property Taxation,” was a ballot initiative to amend the constitution of the state of California. The initiative was enacted by the voters of California on June 6, 1978. It would eventually be upheld as constitutional by the United States Supreme Court in the case of Nordlinger v. Hahn, 505 U.S. 1 (1992). Proposition 13 is embodied in Article 13A of the California Constitution.

    The most significant portion of the act is the first paragraph, which capped real estate taxes:

    “ SECTION 1. (a) The maximum amount of any ad valorem tax on real property shall not exceed One percent (1%) of the full cash value of such property. The one percent (1%) tax to be collected by the counties and apportioned according to law to the districts within the counties. ”

    The proposition’s passage resulted in a cap on property tax rates in the state, reducing them by an average of 57%. In addition to lowering property taxes, the initiative also contained language requiring a two-thirds majority in both legislative houses for future increases in all state tax rates or amounts of revenue collected, including income tax rates. Proposition 13 received an enormous amount of publicity, not only in California, but throughout the United States.[1]

    Passage of the initiative presaged a “taxpayer revolt” throughout the country that is sometimes thought to have contributed to the election of Ronald Reagan to the presidency in 1980. However, of 30 anti-tax ballot measures that year, only 13 passed.[2]

    A large contributor to Proposition 13 was the sentiment that older Californians should not be priced out of their homes through high taxes.[3] The proposition has been called the “third rail” (meaning “untouchable subject”) of California politics and it is not politically popular for Sacramento lawmakers to attempt to change it.[3]“—

    It’s fair because it says so in our State Constitution! The people of California voted to amend the Constitution and that is the most basic and important right of citizens.

    That’s what makes it right. No judges or corrupt politicians.

  26. Pralay Says:

    CA Resident,
    The link you provided says:

    One month before Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger took office in November 2003, just eight state employees earned more than $200,000 a year working in the core state government, which excludes universities and the Legislature. In April of this year, there were nearly a thousand, according to records.

    And the number of state employees making six-figure salaries has more than doubled since 2003, to nearly 15,000.

    Is Schwarzenegger Democrat? Educate me, because I don’t know much about politics.

    Yes, I understand Vallejo is a case of utter financial mismanagement. But I am yet to see any comparison between SF and other same size cities outside California. How much do they spend on payroll and how much does SF spend? Because in the end, individual salaries of a set of employees is not the real issue. The real issue is how much TOTAL they are spending in payroll (including insurance + tax).

  27. DreamT Says:

    Re: “Isn’t it better to be at the top of the bottom than the bottom of the top?”, california resident stated that the board is out of touch, behind the times, making chump changes, and generally full of democrats.
    My opinion: california resident is a hardcore democrat masquerading as a republican troll to give them republicans a bad name. Will it work? Yes! because we are all “fools here on this board.”

  28. Renter4 Says:

    I thought the point of buying in the RBA was to never see conservative people like CA Resident? We’re all so edumacated & culturalooral & stuff, right? Where’s RealEstater? Why isn’t he fighting CA Resident off for us?

  29. Pralay Says:

    My opinion: california resident is a hardcore democrat masquerading as a republican troll to give them republicans a bad name. Will it work? Yes! because we are all “fools here on this board.”
    ———–

    I think that explains the Freudian slip in post #13 where he said – “as long as the citizens of California continue to elect stupid Democrats to the state legislature, we can expect more cutbacks to government services”.

    I was under impression that Democrats are adding new useless welfare-like services everyday and paying $200K salaries to new employees.

  30. not a Dumocrat Says:

    “Educate me, because I don’t know much about politics.”

    Yup, you don’t know much about politics. Gov Arnold is a RINO–he’s a Democrat. He’s run up the state deficit more than the person he replaced.

    California is BROKE because S.F., Vallejo, L.A. and everywhere spent too much money on goverment employee salaries and benefits, state programs, ect ect. Does ANYONE in the S.F. Police Department deserved to be paid $200,000? No.

    According to the U.S Census Bureau California ranked 10th in per capita state taxes: $2,724.31

    California ranked first in the nation in state tax revenues at $98,434,685,000. California is still broke after taking in $100,000,000,000! [the amounts are for 2005]

    http://www.census.gov/govs/statetax/05staxrank.html

    Tell me again why we need to raise taxes in California? Is it so we can pay government clerks and garbage truck drivers $75,000/yr?

    Or is it that we aren’t collecting enough taxes?

    Welcome to Paradise!
    /

  31. not a Dumocrat Says:

    pralay:

    “I was under impression that Democrats are adding new useless welfare-like services everyday and paying $200K salaries to new employees.”

    To you and the rest of you RBA liberals, this is all a joke. I can tell you where Californians are going to start seeing LESS government benefits soon. MediCAL reimbursements are going to suffer an across the board 10% cut. That means nothing to you well healed folks in the RBA, but MediCAL patients make up 90% of the case mix where I work.

    This is going to cause many health clinics to fold and all medical facilities that serve MediCAL patients are going to suffer.

    And that is just a start. So, how much do you really care that California is broke?

    Of course there’s not an ounce of fat or waste in government in California.

  32. bob Says:

    You obviously are a Democrat. There’s another solution. Teachers who don’t think that $58,000/yr isn’t enough can move to another state.

    Actually, I’m neither because in my opinion, both parties and the plebeians they cater too are full of themselves.

    Yes- 58k is NOT enough for a teacher in California, especially not when they could make almost the same amount in another state and actually afford to have the kind of lifestyle they would never have in CA.

    Teachers are doing exactly what is being predicted: They’re leaving. We’re already laying off over 100,000 of them this year. less than 50% of California teachers plan on staying in California per a recent survey. Personally, I would do exactly the same. But yet when parents wring their hands about the increasingly bad school system, then perhaps they should look at what is causing it, which is that the teachers who teach their kids are simply getting the hell out of here.

    It isn’t just teachers. Almost all CA cities have police, nurse, firefighter, and Doctor shortages. Again- because these professionals can do much better elsewhere. I’d say that unless the trend is reversed, CA is eventually going to have a health care crisis on it’s hands, especially since CA’s retirement age population grows bigger every year( Since nobody under the age of 40 can afford to live here).

    The way to fix the bulk of these problems is easy on paper, but I doubt they’ll ever get passed.

    1: Repeal Prop 13

    2: Repeal all those anti-development laws and enact smart growth initiatives that encourage efficient building practices and denser development.

    3: Control government spending and curb frivolous expenditures.

    4: Address the illegal immigration situation ( even though without illegal immigrants, we don’t get the benefit of cheaper agricultural products, so this is a double-edged sword)

    5: Upgrade transportation systems that would open up access to outlying developments to encourage expansion

    6: Encourage the development of multi-tiered housing developments: Starter, move-up, and upscale level homes. Not just Mcmansions and overpriced Lofts.

    7:Cut taxes for businesses.

    Those are just a few ideas. But bottom line, the state is in the shape its in because none of these issues are ever addressed in a meaningful way. The way I see it, if we continue down the path that we are, CA will turn into a Brazil-style economy, with lots of rich people, a lot of poor people, and not much inbetween.

  33. austindweller Says:

    What a fucked up state CA is. When it comes to our (me + spouse) hard earned money with hours of responsible work, buckborden goes repetitively mentioning it everywhere. And when these bus drivers, police officers make a lot, he has surprisingly nothing to say. Ohh yeah, that’s fair. They are highly educated, efficient and they add quite more to GDP than what we do.

    I am glad I am austindweller now. I don’t have to contribute to CA government employees fund any more. Sometimes I feel I shouldn’t even post anything about BA and CA here. Why to make these RBA suckers aware of their screwed up state. Let them suffer at the hands of their own. But then I want to at least warn those who want to move there.

  34. Pralay Says:

    Gov Arnold is a RINO–he’s a Democrat.
    ———-

    Got it, got it. Anybody spends money is democrat. It appears that the whole Republican party is full of democrats. :) Oh, yeah except a few like Ron Paul.

  35. bob Says:

    austindweller,
    I’d actually be curious to know how your living experience is going in Austin. Probably too early to tell now, but since Austin is on my list of possible relo-cities, It would be good to get firsthand experience through the eyes of a former BA resident.

  36. rick Says:

    CA resident,
    Hey the CA constitution has been anti-gay rights before, if gay rights are upheld does it mean that the constituion has been wrong? You did quote that politicians can change it but it won’t be popular.

    I’ve read that wiki article before, you’ve omitted all the negatvie impacts discussed. I don’t think anybody is arguing about the part about 1% taxes.

  37. california resident Says:

    rick:

    “Hey the CA constitution has been anti-gay rights before, if gay rights are upheld does it mean that the constituion has been wrong? You did quote that politicians can change it but it won’t be popular.”

    What?!??! Gay marriage isn’t in the State Constitution. As for gay “rights”, the Constitution doesn’t mention that either. Being gay is not like being white or black and is not on the same footing as religion, either.

    The citizens will correct the travesty of justice of gay marriage this November when they amend the Constitution so that marriage will ONLY be allowed between one woman and one man.

  38. Prof. Bleen Says:

    Now why doesn’t it surprise me that california resident is an anti-gay bigot?

  39. Pralay Says:

    The citizens will correct the travesty of justice of gay marriage this November
    ——-

    CA Resident,
    What would you do if citizens “fools” of California don’t do it in coming November? Become California NON-resident?

  40. mrbogue Says:

    I hope more Gays come to California, Gay people are quite fabulous. They make the best neighbors, keep their front/backyards in tidy fashion, and rarely commit crime. If legalizing Gay marriage would bring more of these folks to our area, i’d be all for it!

  41. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    I am with you, mrbogue. Gay neighbors raise property values. And with the RBA shrinking every day, we need well-kept neighborhoods so at least our block is still in the RBA.

    Wow, I didn’t think this board could attract more than one troll, but there are 2 new ones just in this one topic. Keep it to real estate, folks.

    I want to circulate an initiative that will void any “2/3 repeal” clause of any previous initiative unless that initiative itself passed by 2/3 of the vote. I’d call it the “Sauce for the Goose” Proposition.

  42. Frank Jewett Says:

    Couples with two incomes and no children have more disposable income to pump into the local economy.

  43. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    Couples with two incomes and no children have more disposable income to pump into the local economy.

    Oh, we can’t have that, can we? Too many of those and housing prices will start rising again.

  44. Pralay Says:

    Is it so we can pay government clerks and garbage truck drivers $75,000/yr?
    ———

    CA Resident,
    I don’t see any problem in garbage truck driver getting $75K. It’s a free market economy. If there are less people available for garbage truck driving skills, employer has no option other than offering better salaries to keep/attract garbage truck drivers. After all, somebody has to move all the garbage you dump every week on your sidewalk.

    It seems you are pissed off on anybody who earn more than you. If you are earning less than a garbage truck driver, why don’t you apply for that job and earn more? One guy in my office who used to work in shipping dept recently joined in SJ Firefighter Academy. He figured that can earn more money being firefighter than receiving packages in hitech company. More power to him.

  45. Norcalboomer Says:

    Holy S–t Batman!!!,
    Police and Firefighters making $200,000 plus in California??? !!!!. I am an MD and my wife is a teacher in NC. We only made about $300 K last year!! I love to play with the hose ( I love to water my garden) and my wife loves donuts. If we came back to California as a firefighter and police officer we could clear, what maybe $400-450K?. If real estate prices keep falling we’ll come back home to “protect and serve” in a different fashion ( The retirement packages the police/firemen have is way ” killer” than anything we have out here). “Caleeforniaaa, here I come, right back where I started from”… :)

  46. Renter4 Says:

    We actually knew someone who was in the police department & totally hated it. I think he wound up quitting and went back to tech!

    I don’t know, it doesn’t seem that terrible to me that people who provide essential services should get paid as if their skills were in demand. I don’t know about anyone else here, but my white-collar workplace doesn’t require me to spend my time running into flames or arguing with felons. Why SHOULD they get paid less?

  47. Real Estater Says:

    >>I am an MD and my wife is a teacher in NC. We only made about $300 K last year!

    What’s so special about a MD? Can you program in Java?

  48. Renter4 Says:

    What’s so special about a MD? Can you program in Java?

    Oh, RE. You are SO OBVIOUSLY not really a tech guy!
    MD’s code in Ruby, duh!

  49. burbed Says:

    FWIW, cops only get paid about $60k in NYC. But that’s because it’s cheaper to live there… safer too.

  50. Norcalboomer Says:

    Real Estater says:
    What’s so special about a MD? Can you program in Java?

    Java?, Like Java the Hut? Like Java, east of Krakatoa ( I believe it was actually west)?. I have trouble programming all the electronic gadgets around the house, but I eventually figure it out. But at 3:00 am if you are dying of sepsis from your ruptured appendix I can probably help you out. :)

  51. Renter4 Says:

    Here’s the breakdown of NYPD pay. A Lt. makes six figures not counting overtime.

    I’m not saying the situation in Vallejo sounds particularly reasonable. Just that six-figure income doesn’t sound so terrible. Particularly given that single-income firefighters & police officers can afford to buy very near NYC…

  52. How to get your kids into a good school in California - camp for days, punch out others, voluntary mandatory donations [Burbed.com] Says:

    [...] How to get your kids into a good school in California – camp for days, punch out others, voluntary mandatory donations “California ranks toward the bottom of the barrel” [Burbed.com] [...]


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