Gas hits $5 a gallon in Redwood City, Bay Area, California
Here in the Bay Area, we are proud of blazing new paths - of leading the nation and world through innovation. We invented the PC. We invented Internet. We re-invented how to enroll your children to school. And now, we invent the $5 a gallon gas:
Congrats Bay Area. We’re #1!
June 10th, 2008 at 12:24 am
Out of curiosity, why do you claim the Internet was invented in the Bay Area? What’s the basis of this assertion?
June 10th, 2008 at 12:47 am
Truthiness.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:04 am
Oooohhh, V Power! Worth every penny.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:28 am
1. Arrest and Impeach George Bushco and Dick Cheneyburton.
2. Imprison indefinitely
3. Revoke passport.
4. Seize assets.
5. Change national colors from Red White and Blue to Orange in honor of Countrywide Savings and Orangello Mozillo who should be in the cage next to B & C.
America is Dead. Turd world would be a compliment to America. Have a Nice Day.
Welcome to George Bush’s America
Welcome to Hell.
June 10th, 2008 at 7:23 am
Wall Street Journal agrees with RealEstater: Go buy a gas guzzling SUV and take advantage of the discounts!
http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/105216/When-Buying-a-Gas-Guzzler-Makes-Sense
June 10th, 2008 at 8:19 am
I was watching one of those doom and gloom TV shows last night. IT was on the History channel, which I understand is tailored for old men who enjoy making model railroads and collecting beer signs, but still- it was kind of creepy in a way.
It was about the worst case scenario if gas became say- $8 a gallon across the US. This show was actually sort of old, as in made last year per the copyright at the end. But it mentioned the problem we already see, which is the incredibly simple equation that most of what we eat, buy, drive, and live by is powered by combustible petroleum products. When fuel prices rise, so too do food, consumer goods, and everything else inbetween. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a big honkin’ truck driver or a goodie-two-shoe hybrid driver. Either way, we all get screwed evenly.
The radio today had stories of protests in France, Belgium, and Germany over the cost of diesel, which though enables Europeans to drive tiny turbo diesel cars that get 50-70MPG ( thanks to higher pollution tolerances) now costs $10 a gallon. Farmers, fishermen, and truckers are now in a position there where they cannot make a profit due to the cost of fuel. So in some respects, what is happening now is already indicating something potentially devastating.
On the other hand, I can’t help but feel that this could also be the work of yet another over-exuberant bubble. First it was the dot-com, which afterwards, all those investors jumped to real estate, which afterwards they jumped into commodities, like fuel and agriculture. Wall Street seems to function primarily on get rich quick schemes, and the latest could very well be gas futures. If that be the case, then government legislation should enact a plan to raise margins for investors because futures should only be used for those who are actively involved in the receiving end, which none of these investors are.
But… the good news is that if fuel prices and everything else keeps going up, then this will cause the housing crash to pick up speed and crash even worse. As we all know, Americans don’t save anything and seldom prepare for anything beyond the present day. If Americans have no money, they can’t buy houses can they? Then again, houses might be the least of our concerns in the coming future. They might become outright liabilities because if we are indeed heading into an era of protracted recession caused by a fuel problem, then your best option is going to be in having the ability to be mobile and fluid versus confined to a single area.
-end doom and gloom post.
Meanwhile, it is nice and sunny today!
June 10th, 2008 at 8:39 am
But… the good news is that if fuel prices and everything else keeps going up, then this will cause the housing crash to pick up speed and crash even worse.
———
CNN/Money: Places like Beverly Hills, Calif. and Greenwich, Conn. have been hit by steep price declines, and a jump in foreclosures. And this is only the beginning of summer.
June 10th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Parlay,
Those reports suggest the whole domino effect: crappy hoods going down first, followed by the cream at the top.Its a trickle-down effect. The irony is that people feel that those crappy hoods with dramatically slashed prices are a real steal. You haven’t seen anything yet. The cycle has to run it’s course first and work its way through the entire spectrum. That’s only begun.
June 10th, 2008 at 10:03 am
bob,
There is a lot of debate on Economist.com about commodities future speculation.
June 10th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Rick,
I have a strong suspicion that a potentially significant percentage of oil prices is tied to speculation. A couple of days ago, OPEC said they would not be ramping up production because their own projections were that oil should be more like $70 a barrel, not the $135 or so that it is now. If that’s the case, then oil is quite possibly overinflated by as much as 50% by pure speculation.
Again, this to me is starting to smell more and more like the latest bubble: Everyone was told that commodities were “the place to be” in a recession, and like lemmings, everyone shoved all their money into it. The good thing is that this sort of bubble tends to self-destruct rather quickly because the damage they induce also causes the economy to deteriorate.
June 10th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Yeah, impeach George Bush!
That’ll instantly:
1. Strengthen the dollar,
2. Increase crude supplies, and
3. Decrease demand for oil.
Gas will be $1.00 a gallon by Thursday. Basic economics, really.
Oh, and increase taxes on those mean old oil companies, because then we can use the money to fund alternative fuels that compete with the industry we’re taxing! It’s not like a corporation accountable to its shareholders would respond to increased taxation by raising prices!
June 10th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Here’s a clip from that report:
ALGIERS (Reuters) - OPEC President Chakib Khelil said on Monday there was a speculative bubble in the oil markets, which but for a weak dollar and geopolitical problems should be trading at around $70 a barrel.
“In terms of fundamentals, there is no problem of supply and demand. There is much more a bubble due to speculation, which is based on a depreciating dollar and geopolitical tensions,” Khelil, who is also Algerian Energy and Mines Minister, was quoted by Algerian official news agency APS as saying.
“The problem is the economic crisis in the United States, which led the dollar to fall sharply, and threats against Iran, which have increased geopolitical tensions.”
“If there were not these factors, oil prices would probably be at $70,” he added.
Now to add to this, Ben Bernanke mentioned today that he felt that the economy was poised for some sort of turnaround. That doesn’t really mean anything other than that he is priming the market for an inevitable rate increase, which in my opinion is greatly needed. The drastic reduction is responsible for the weaker dollar, which as mentioned by Mr. Khelil is part of the problem behind higher oil prices. So in other words, the FED has no choice but to raise rates or face the consequence of out-of-control oil prices.
The US is in a pickle: The public was bankrupted by buying overvalued homes and in an attempt to save property values, the consumer was actually hurt even further, thus the hope for a recovery in housing is all but nill for the foreseeable future because whatever the Fed does,the results will be the same, which is that the buying power of the public is weak. The answer of course is so stupidly simple, but we’ve known this for years: Prices have to come down to levels that incomes actually support. No amount of fiddling, rate cutting, or bailing will prevent this, and as we’ve seen, doing so only makes matters worse.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:16 am
“We invented the PC. We invented Internet.” Burbed your wrong. BayArea didn’t invent the internet. Al Gore did.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
ha ha… you’re one funny guy RoxBoy.
June 10th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Let’s debunk that “Al Gore invented the internet” myth, shall we?
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
June 10th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Isn’t it another invention by Dick Armey?
http://www.ontheissues.org/askme/internet.htm
June 10th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Impeach Bush? Bush is Hitler? Bush is responsible for the current price of gasoline?
I’ll have to report you to the school librarian and have them take your computer privileges away. Why is it that all of left wing wackos seem to hang out in the RBA?
If B Hussein Obama bin Laden is elected President, then watch all energy prices go through the roof and it won’t be due to speculation. The dumocrats are just going tax the oil companies.
Of course, higher taxes on energy will make the price at the pump go down. And who said Democrats had half a brain?
June 10th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
If Al Gore didn’t invent the internet, oh well, at least he invented Global Warming.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Well, the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center did have the second website ever made, after CERN. And probably SRI was behind Darpanet. So yeah, bay area could claim a lot of the internets. Not the tubes, though, that’s strickly an Alaskan thing.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Have you priced diesel fuel lately? It’s been over $5 a gallon for a while. I’m sure snickering at all those soccer moms driving their honkin’ big SUVs to drop one kid off at preschool. They can feel safe inside those mother-truckers. And poor.
Oh great, the other troll came back. I wonder what would happen if they got into an argument? One would tout real estate in certain areas, and the other would call him a liberal for encouraging anyone to buy here.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
I think the poster above was ridiculing the linking of Bush to the oil and inflation problems we have- well sorry- Bush IS the problem or a significant portion of it.
When Bush took office, the US federal/national debt was approx 3.8 trillion dollars. This is financed by asian banks primarily and the debt had been declining for the entire decade of the 90s, thanks to record surpluses in the Clinton era and some prudent tax strategies early on in the decade, including Bush I’s breach with his “no new taxes” pledge.
Bush II came in office, cut taxes and started wars. After 7 years of Bush leadership, we now have a federal debt of over 9 trillion dollars. It has more than doubled with Bush in office, and remember the prior debt was the culmination of debt attributed to ALL presidents not just Clinton. Dubya spent 200 years of debt in just one term! Iraq costs 15 billion per month, and thats just combat ops not residual costs like medical care for all the returning veterans. Bush implemented that HUGE beaurocracy the dept of homeland security, a complete waste that gave us Katrina, and the Bush medicare drug plan is a trillion dollar boondoggle. Thats where the money went - did we get our money’s worth?
Due to this massive overspending by Bush and republicans in congress, the dollar crashed against all other currencies and consequently, commodities PRICED in dollars are going through the roof. Had the dollar been stable or risen, as it did in the Clinton era, oil would be $75 bbl- NOT $135. The crash in the dollar accounts for almost double the price.
Dumbya is the stagflation president and his reckless term will take decades to repair.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
by the way, it is not a given that real estate will crash when inflation comes back. Real estate is an inflation hedge- it may holds its value, which is what has happened this entire decade.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
I guess it’s all Bush’s fault. In your little diatribe I didn’t see one word about 9/11. Oh, that’s right, it really wasn’t anything REAL.
Bushco made up the entire “War on Terror.” Osama bin Hidin and the rest of Al Qaeda, the Islamofascists AND Saddam were just nice folks with bad PR people.
And when B Hussein Obama bin Laden is elected he will “show us the way” with his diplomacy and tact! Soon the world will love America again, the troops will all come home and Iraq will return to, ah, whatever.
Right? That’s what the new castrati liberals believe–”Peace from negotiation and conflict resolution”. I even heard a prominent Democrat in the State legislature from the Bay Area say that he believes that we no longer need ANY armed forces! He said that we should desolve the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. All we needed was a domestic police force because “No one is going to invade America today.”
Wow, just think of all the money we’ll save! And the price of oil will drop because the dollar will strengthen.
I’m tingling will joy just thinking about B. Hussein Obama’s arrival–He’s the Messiah returning to save us from Hell. Hell brought on by George W. Bush.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Political arguments must include impact on real estate. This is a real estate board.
So, who would be worse for housing prices, McCain or Obama? How did 9/11 affect real estate prices in the RBA? Why would anyone support Bush because of 9/11 anyway? He was warned attacks were imminent and he blew it off (”Okay, you covered your ass.”) He knew OBL was in Afghanistan and moved troops to Iraq, with no AQ whatsoever, despite this. Yeah, there’s AQ now, because of the invasion. And the impact on real estate? Skyrocketing oil prices that have pounded the exurbs.
June 10th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Whichever candidate trashes the dollar will be better for real estate, because RE does well in inflationary environments. Its hard to know who will be the bigger wreckless spender - decades ago the democrats were the spenders and republicans fiscally conservative but that is now obsolete. McCain seems to still support war, although he has always been pretty good with pork spending. But war is too expensive so my guess is - McCain crashes the dollar more than Obama, so McCain is better for Real estate. A wag, I know. Doesn’t matter anyway- Obama wins this one. Bush destroyed us and it will take decades to recover. And as for anybody who blames this Bush mess on 911- for each of the 3000 people who died in 911- Bush spent TWO BILLION dollars of taxpayer money. The families probably would have rather had the cash. And for the 6 trillion Bush added to our debt- where is Osama Bin Laden?
June 10th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
You know, when these right wing nuts say “Barack HUSSEIN Obama” they really expose themselves for the idiot bigots that they are. Grow up, really.
June 10th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
To be fair, Bush isn’t himself responsible for the predatory lending crisis. Isn’t that, like the $500 billion S&L bailout some years ago, the legacy of the Reagan “Let’s Legalize Business Crime” initiative so popular with rich Republicans?
June 10th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Bushco made up the entire “War on Terror.” Osama bin Hidin and the rest of Al Qaeda,
——-
Did Bush made up Osama or Al Qaeda? No.
Did Bush made up “War On Terror”? YES.
And I have a news for you. The “War On Terror” was dead after 2004 Presidential Election. There was no orange color terror alert in 2004 Christmas evening.
June 10th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Bush took the country to war because Saddam plotted to assassinate his dad. It’s as simple as that. The rest of his cronies wanted Iraq for various reasons, and they took advantage of the opportunity to realize their agenda.
Frankly, I was very surprised so many Americans “bought” the war at the time. If one were to do a psychological study, it probably can be traced to the same sort of mind set that caused so many Germans to support Hitler to invade other countries for self-justified reasons. I would describe it as a combination of arrogance and utter ignorance. We have no one to blame but ourselves for following this idiot for 2 terms. In case you’re wondering, no, I do not support the troops.
June 10th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
If you look at where the Bush support came from, it’s mostly in “fly-over country”. In a place like the Bay Area where all the smart people are, there is little support for him.
June 10th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
So the “flyover” country residents are nothing but ignorant hopeless gun loving, bible thumping trolls while the people who are “smart” and educated live in places like the RBA and NYC.
God, you really have guts to say things like that.
That’s right up there with, “We all know that negroes are an inferior race since they don’t have the intelligence like white people do.”
Or, you can’t trust anyone who supports the military because they’re nothing but raving homicidal maniacs.
Or it’s all the Jews fault–Hitler had it right all along.
I wonder why so many people in this country think that people from the left coast are just a bunch incredibly bigoted losers.
I have information for you from “flyover country”. The folks in Iowa are infinitely more superior to the vast majority of the citizens of the RBA.
How does this affect real estate prices? Well, if the economy crumbles, even the RBA will be decimated. Because the RBA NEEDS those “ignorant” flyover citizens to keep the country running.
I’ve never seen so many pathetic people as I’ve seen on this board.
June 10th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Real Estater: Question. Have you ever done anything for someone else that didn’t result in a benefit to your own situation/wealth/status?
In other words, have you ever sacrificed ANYTHING for someone else or your community or country?
Would you have sacrificed your life charging Omaha Beach in 1944 or flying in a B-17 over Berlin?
Would you have joined the Continental Army at Valley Forge freezing you butt and starving wearing only rags and no boots? Would you have held the line at Gettysburg while your fellow soldiers dropped on either side?
Or are you one of those people that only like the benefits you get from a world that was created on the graves of better men than you?
Don’t fret–most people in our world today look out for number one. You have plenty of miserable company in the RBA.
You guys think that you’re ahead of the idiots now fighting Islamofacists in Afghanistan and Iraq. But you’re the loser because you’ll live your entire life as a self-serving, narcissistic person who absolutely no one will miss when you die.
The Bay Area RE prices are a testament to people who only value the dollar.
I’ll take flyover country anytime.
June 10th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
I’m with you on not supporting the troops RealEstater. I think most of us are too young to understand the resentment that many felt towards Vietnam veterans and then the guilt that existed for years after that fiasco. Well Iraq brought it back in spades. The reason people resented the Vietnam vets is because the military is a whole subculture that feeds on itself. The military and military influence on red states is what caused the Idiot prince Bush to be elected a second time. It was as if the military rallied around their own worthless war and couldn’t criticize from within. I am certain that is the same thing that happened in Vietnam, except in 1968 those troops were just a bunch of drafted 19 year olds.
And by the way “calif resident”- California receives less than 70 cents back for every dollar we send to the federal government. There are other coastal states like CA- New York, New Jersey to name a few. Where does our money go- to flyover country thats where. Flyover country is a DRAIN on the CA economy not a booster to it. CA is the 6th largest economy behind france. There is almost nothing CA gets from flyover country but bad presidents like Bush and stupid wars. And thats a fact.
June 10th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
>>Real Estater: Question. Have you ever done anything for someone else that didn’t result in a benefit to your own situation/wealth/status?
Absolutely. I’m a firm believer in charity. Within the past month, I have:
- Volunteered for a day at a homeless shelter
- Donated money to my local library
- Donated money to the Red Cross
- Volunteered for a field trip event at my local school
I’m not making this up. You happen to hit upon a topic I believe in strongly.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
RE finally says something that makes sense (#28) and then spoils it with the utter stupidity of #29. Bush doesn’t have much support in “fly-over country” now either. Last I heard, the only states still supporting him were Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming, and that was 4 months ago.
As to all the smart Bay Areans, the week after 9/11, some neighbor we’d never seen before took it on himself to ring every doorbell to ask people to put up flags. I guess RE can claim that my neighborhood is full of stupid people, although the PRIZM zip profile says otherwise.
PRIZM Zip Code Lookup — You could spend a few hours on here.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
>>Would you have sacrificed your life charging Omaha Beach in 1944 or flying in a B-17 over Berlin?
>>Would you have joined the Continental Army at Valley Forge freezing you butt and starving wearing only rags and no boots? Would you have held the line at Gettysburg while your fellow soldiers dropped on either side?
calif resident,
What you have is a brain-washed mind filled with fantasies caused by military indoctrination. All these things you stated are not so noble. You can find the exact same sort of thoughts from the commies in North Korea.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
madhaus,
DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!
June 10th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
RE, which one?
actually you are making lots of sense on this topic. You seem passionate rather than your usual detached posing. A much more honest side of you.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
LOL. I was talking about myself!
June 10th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
madhaus, Willow Glen 95125 has that exact same prizm profile, in the same order. It could be that all of Silicon Valley burbs are the same. My guess might be that the hills, Saratoga and Los Altos hills etc might deviate some.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
I’ll take flyover country anytime.
———–
calif resident,
No no no! You should take Iraq. How come you are not the guy who is getting deployed to Iraq?
June 10th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
WG, the order they present them in doesn’t matter, if you want it in statistical order you have to pay them for the service. Go ahead and plug in as many zip codes as you want, it’s kind of fun. I’m pretty sure that Los Altos Hills was stuff like “Winners Circle” and the like: high income, older couples. There’s a place on the site where they show how the categories are organized, they break them into age groups, income groups, etc.
RE, I’m rewarding positive behavior only. Same as with my kids.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Pralay, it’s amazing how those chest-thumpers never offer to join the Army and fight for our right to have cheap oil and sweetheart deals for government looters like Blackwater. I hear the troops are kind of stressed, so there is a good chance they’d even take a mouthbreather like calif resident.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
I wonder why so many people in this country think that people from the left coast are just a bunch incredibly bigoted losers.
————-
Bush’s approval rating: less than 30.
Cheney’s approval rating: single digit.
What you call “so many people” got to be this small minority who still approve Bush-Cheney.
And losers? The real losers of this country are those security moms who thought their children would be saved by Bush from a Beslan-like massacre. All those moms got is a veto in SCHIPS bill.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
I wonder why so many people in this country think that people from the left coast are just a bunch incredibly bigoted losers.
————-
Bush’s approval rating: less than 30.
Cheney’s approval rating: single digit.
What you call “so many people” got to be this small minority who still approve Bush-Cheney.
And losers? The real losers of this country are those security moms who thought their children would be saved by Bush from a Beslan-like massacre. All those moms got is a veto in SCHIPS bill.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
I wonder why so many people in this country think that people from the left coast are just a bunch incredibly bigoted losers.
————-
Bush’s approval rating: less than 30.
Cheney’s approval rating: single digit.
What you call “so many people” got to be this small minority who still approve Bush-Cheney.
And losers? The real losers of this country are those security moms who thought their children would be saved by Bush from a Beslan-like massacre. Those moms - all they got from him is a veto in SCHIPS bill.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
FWIW, if you look at campaign donation maps, there’s actually a pretty interesting blotch of big donations from Manhattan’s Upper East Side to the Bush-Cheney campaign in 2004. So, it’s not always flyover country.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
it’s amazing how those chest-thumpers never offer to join the Army…..
———-
I think they have “other priorities” - just like Dick “Five-Deferment” Cheney.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
While Bush’s daughter is enjoying honeymoon in Europe, other people’s sons and daughters are sent to Iraq to die for a non-cause.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
>>FWIW, if you look at campaign donation maps, there’s actually a pretty interesting blotch of big donations from Manhattan’s Upper East Side to the Bush-Cheney campaign in 2004.
Come on, that’s the Jewish contingency. I’ll stop here.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
No, the Jewish contingency is the Upper West Side. I’m afraid you have your stereotypes wrong. Upper East Side is so old money that they wouldn’t have let Jews own real estate back then.
June 11th, 2008 at 12:12 am
No, the Jewish contingency is the Upper West Side. I’m afraid you have your stereotypes wrong. Upper East Side is so old money that they wouldn’t have let Jews own real estate back then.
Oh good, we’re back to Real Estate again. We can talk about Restrictive Covenants and Gentlemens’ Agreements. I think that’s still going on at Fishers Island.
June 11th, 2008 at 12:45 am
If only we were so lucky to have New York’s famed co-op system. It’s sad - their residents can turn away Madonna from buying real estate because she’s not good enough. That should be possible here as well!
June 11th, 2008 at 7:44 am
Arguments like these are totally stupid. Either it’s Bush’s fault, the super-liberal’s fault, flyover land’s fault, The Bay Area’s fault, or basically everything except the real problem which is that the US has been fueling its economy for years almost entirely on pure fluff and debt.
All we do these days is try to pull fast one over whoever at the quickest convenience. That’s what the last 2 bubbles, and perhaps the latest oil bubble is all about: Make a POS look all pretty, tied up with a bow, then pass it on to some stupid shmuck who thinks they too are going to get rich quick.
Well, that has caught up to us in the form of the state of our economy as it stands, which is to say that we are now a country of bag holders. If you bought a house in the last 4-5 years, then you’re a bag holder.
The financial situation in the US is basically setup to eventually drain away all the cash from the publics pockets and into an increasingly small contingent at the top. It’s easy to do too: tell people that investing in such and such is a GREAT IDEA and people will gladly do so. The last several bubbles prove just how eager people are willing to part with their money on thinly veiled promises. So much so that I can assure you that a new bubble is undoubtedly being cooked up as we speak to further allow the economy to function by parting the earning public of their money. Since we don’t actually make squat anymore to export, that’s the only way we can function as an economy.
June 11th, 2008 at 8:44 am
>> And by the way “calif resident”- California receives less than 70 cents back for every dollar we send to the federal government. There are other coastal states like CA- New York, New Jersey to name a few. Where does our money go- to flyover country thats where. Flyover country is a DRAIN on the CA economy not a booster to it. CA is the 6th largest economy behind france.
This in a nutshell was what I think is 100% true. BA salaries do not provide the standard of living that one would expect in other states. Where does the money go ? Mostly in taxes. And how much of those taxes CA residents get back in the form of benefits ? None. What more, I think moving there basically means taking a cut in salary even though the number is high. I think you should move there if you get 3 times what you could get in other states.
June 11th, 2008 at 8:44 am
>> And by the way “calif resident”- California receives less than 70 cents back for every dollar we send to the federal government. There are other coastal states like CA- New York, New Jersey to name a few. Where does our money go- to flyover country thats where. Flyover country is a DRAIN on the CA economy not a booster to it. CA is the 6th largest economy behind france.
This in a nutshell is 100% true. BA salaries do not provide the standard of living that one would expect in other states. Where does the money go ? Mostly in taxes. And how much of those taxes CA residents get back in the form of benefits ? None. What more, I think moving there basically means taking a cut in salary even though the number is high. I think you should move there if you get 3 times what you could get in other states.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:08 am
bob if you bought a bay area house in the past 4-5 years you are NOT a bag holder, come on. You might, MIGHT be a bag holder if you bought something in July 07, but thats about it. I know- I bought a house in December 06 and made money on it- even now.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:24 am
WillowGlenner,
oh really? Have you sold it? Do you have cash in hand from “all the money you’ve made” from the house? If not, then you haven’t actually made anything at all and in reality are in debt for whatever remains of your payment.
This little housing bust party has only gotten started, so I think it is a bit early to claim that you’ve done well on your purchase, which if made in 06 was right at the very start of the downward cycle.You’ll have a nice bag in your hand soon enough.
Anyhow, buying a home as some sort of money making scheme is stupid anyway. I myself have actual cash savings and investments that really do make me money that I can hold in my hand. It isn’t merely a theoretical value of a liability.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Again, bob, please try to have a little perspective here. You claimed anybody who bought a house in the past FOUR OR FIVE YEARS is a bagholder. Are you kidding? What kind of alternate universe do you live in, really.
Lets pick an arbitrary zipcode, how about 94087 which I know very little about, and find some houses on redfin with a last sale date 4-5 years ago and see if the people selling now are bagholders.
heres one- sold in 2004 for 875K now $1,249.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Sunnyvale/942-CHEHALIS-Dr-94087/home/1013004
$599 in 2003, now 929K
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Sunnyvale/1657-MEADOWLARK-Ln-94087/home/1083654
heres one from 2006- $905K in May 2006- THE PEAK, now for sale for $1099.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Sunnyvale/1202-LIME-Dr-94087/home/1802540
June 11th, 2008 at 10:05 am
None of those houses have actually sold have they? Nope, in fact one of them has been on the market for quite some time now. There’s lots of homes in my neighborhood that are for sale too, but none of them are selling. Well, perhaps a few, but I know for a fact that some of them were sold for far less than what they were last sold for.One was bank owned in fact.There’s a difference between what you’re asking for a home and what you actually get.
The fact that all of the homes you listed were purchased recently has me to believe that the people who are selling HAVE to sell or they are screwed. Why would you buy in 2005,2006,2007 only to sell again? That is completely idiotic. Why buy a house and live in it less time than you could’ve easily rented?
And again- tell me exactly what you plan on doing with all the money that you have in your pockets, right this very minute, from all that income your house makes for you as you live in it. Also- if you sold, how would you make money? The only way you could do that would be to move elsewhere cheaper, and again, that would only make sense if you actually made more than what you paid, which at this point I again seriously doubt you will be able to do in the next 5 years or more. Otherwise, your options are only to buy ANOTHER overpriced house in the BA. If you had perhaps sold in say-2004, then you’d probably be able to buy the same house you sold for less. But that’s not the case if you bought in 2006.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:54 am
Osama BinLaden planned the 9/11 attack on purpose because he knew that if America was under attack, Bush would attack Iraq the first thing. Bush needs a reason to attack Iraq and he could not justify to attack Iraq unless something like 9/11 happened. BinLaden hates Hussein because Hussein actually seeked out and destroyed the Al_Queda network. But Hussein made a grave mistakes by claiming that his military had Weapons of Mass Destruction and that gave Bush the reason to invade Iraq. Bush also lied and bullshited the American people and fabricated many of the reports to justify the war on Iraq. In hindsight, BinLaden is smart, very smart. He wants to destroy Hussein, but the only way he could do that was by attacking America. America cant be in Iraq forever. When the last american troop leave, Al-Queda will have Iraq to themselves. In the end, Bush spends trillions of dollars fighting a war for BinLaden. Come to think about it, BinLaden is no dummy. Bush is.
June 11th, 2008 at 11:18 am
WillowGlen is right. Smart and educated people live near the water: calif, oregon, washington, ny, new england, etc. In fact, if Calif was a separate country, we would be the 10th largest economy in the world. California and New York probably carry half the entire US economy. Without california and the silicon valley, the world would still be living like cavemen. Its not a coincidence that smart educated people also happen to be democrats. Is it a coincidence that ignorant stupid people in flyover country are republicans?
June 11th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Yes- I agree. There is something in the water in coastal areas that make people real smart.Its like a fountain of intelligence. I remind myself every single day how smarter I am after moving here from TN. I could feel the power of my intelligence actually increase the minute I entered the CA border. Even on a plane, I tend to feel stupider as I fly to visit my family.
June 11th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Hi Bob, you obviously sound smarter than most folks I know in TN already.
June 11th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Excuse me, but isn’t this thread about gas prices? Am I in the wrong arena or are we just obsessed with making money again today? BTW, the stock market crashed again, in case nobody noticed. Your money is now worth even less, and the price of oil skyrocketed again. Your McMansion won’t save you.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Gas prices… I’ll believe there’s a crisis when I no longer see Hummers going 55 mph in 35 mph residential areas. Gee, how much time did he save by flooring it for 200 yards only to hit the brakes to turn into the side street?
June 11th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
# Pralay Says:
June 10th, 2008 at 8:39 am
“CNN/Money: Places like Beverly Hills, Calif. and Greenwich, Conn. have been hit by steep price declines, and a jump in foreclosures. And this is only the beginning of summer.”
I looked up the Trulia data for Greenwich, CT. While the median sale price for the 06831 zip code supposedly declined by 15% in the time period that ended in April, the overall town median sale price increased by 37% recently, comparing Mar-May ‘08 to Dec-Feb. It was only a flesh wound! Prices in the RGCA (Real Gold Coast Area) never go down, not really; pay no attention to the contracting boundaries! Most of the new wealth in that town comes from hedge funds, and unlike land, they are always making more dollars.
Median prices there will increase by $100k a month, for the next straight 24 months. You heard it here first.
June 11th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
SiO2 #63:
Sorry to disappoint you, but as long as there are American males insecure about the size of their genitalia, there will be Hummers doing 55 MPH in residential areas. And F-350s use for commuting to office jobs. A little thing like exorbitant gas prices is not going to get in the way of compensating for one’s shortcomings, so to speak.
June 11th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Prof Bleen, that’s pretty funny. I noticed that American-born contractors tend to drive F350s with loud exhausts and big wheels. But immigrant contracts drive stock white Toyota Tundras, and sometimes submit themselves to the indignity of a minivan!
I guess driving a Hummer with $5 gas is a way of demonstrating one’s personal wealth.
June 11th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Driving anything that gets less than 30 mpg these days is advertising that your equipment doesn’t measure up. Me? I have a Honda Fit, 40 mpg and have never owned anything but a high mileage 4-cyl. Draw your own conclusions about my equipment (which comes standard with the model, if you’ll pardon the pun).
June 11th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
WillowGlenner and Bob,
As the resident 94087 maven, I want to comment on those 3 properties WG chose. Chehalis (Cupertino School District) appears to be pending and was only on the market 2 weeks. I visited that house, the extra space was an addition over the garage which gave 2 extra bedrooms, a full bath, and a tiny bonus room that worked as a small office (very small). The addition was ONLY over the garage. The city no longer allows that style of addition, second floors must now be set back. The price was, in my opinion, priced correctly for the neighborhood, to sell fairly quickly. I suspect it will sell at close to the asking price.
Meadowlark is Santa Clara school district and is overpriced at $929K, which is why it has not sold yet. It’s the smallest of the three houses and the least appealing schools, despite the hype in the ad. The kitchen’s old. Finally, 1650 across the street has been on the market for 4 months (1.09 mil, 2 story).
Lime is Cherry Chase elementary, best in Sunnyvale SD (kind of like Palo Alto is best California school district). I have a friend who lives in that neighborhood and calls it the “cocktail fruits subdivision.” The house has been on the market for an entire day. I think it’s slightly overpriced because it’s on the corner of 2 secondary arterials into that neighborhood, although some might like that it’s across the street from a very nice park for under-10 age group. So maybe the price isn’t too bad, house is a smallish 4/2 with some nice updates.
Anyway, my conclusion is only one of these properties will continue sitting on the market long and I agree with WG.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
buckborden Says:
>>Driving anything that gets less than 30 mpg these days is advertising that your equipment doesn’t measure up.
Wrong. Saving gas does not equate to saving money. You can buy a Prius that saves plenty of gas, but cost more to buy than an equivalent Civic.
You can buy a SUV at a discount right now that offers you enough savings to fill up for years, and you’d be traveling in style and comfort.
Honda Fit is for high schoolers!
June 11th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
>>Anyway, my conclusion is only one of these properties will continue sitting on the market long and I agree with WG.
In other words, there is no downturn in the real Bay Area. Your friend Pralay is smoking dope with his data analysis.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
You can buy a SUV at a discount right now that offers you enough savings to fill up for years, and you’d be traveling in style and comfort.
You know this is called Shoe Math among the girly demographic, right?
There was a terribly expensive pair of, I don’t know, Manolos, that were on sale! Only $350 instead of $450! So I bought them. And with the $100 I saved, I bought a really cute pair of sneakers!
You keep making this kind of argument.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
What a coincidence. Bushco threatens Iran leader and Iran leader twists Bushco in a knot with response. German Chancellor looks uneasy on stage with American Dunce Bushco… What WILL this idiot say or do next?
6-10-08 SENATE OFFERED IMPEACHMENT ARTICLES IGNORED BY MAINSTREAM CONTROLLED BOUGHT & PAID FOR MEDIA
http://www.c-span.org/pdf/bush_impeach.pdf
Read it and Weep Bush Supporters, your man is as useless as 6% Real Estate Agents… George has cashed his check… Bye Bye.
Mainstream media yawns as Kucinich offers impeachment Muriel Kane
Published: Tuesday June 10, 2008
On Monday evening, Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) took to the floor of the House of Representatives to read out 35 articles of impeachment against President George W. Bush in an almost five-hour marathon.
Kucinich’s action made an immediate splash on the Internet. For example, at progressive website Democratic Underground, the historic performance quickly garnered an astonishing 56 separate threads on the most-recommended list.
By noon on Tuesday, RAW STORY’s article on the subject was the top political story of the day at digg.com and the 10th most popular for the last year. A separate article at afterdowningstreet.org was also high in the ratings. Both sites, as well as Kucinich’s own webpage, were experiencing slowdowns due to the volume of traffic.
However, the mainstream media were far more reticent in their coverage of Kucinich’s resolution — much as they were following the release last week of the Senate Intelligence Committee’s report on the administration’s misuse of prewar intelligence. For example, the Washington Post and USA Today had short items in their blog sections, while other major outlets merely ran wire service coverage from AP or Reuters.
Kucinich supporter John Kusumi responded angrily at OpEdNews, writing, “The most important thing going happened on Monday night. An event that matters greatly to the course of history and to all Americans. Did you hear about it? Did ABC, CBS, and NBC break into normal programming with special coverage? Are there special alerts and bulletins on the cable news networks, where people can see them? No, no, and no!”
NewsHounds was equally scathing, saying, “So, what if they impeached the president and nobody reported it? As of 3AM EDT the goddam liberal media is largely silent on Dennis Kucinich’s introduction of Articles of Impeachment on the floor of the House last night. Are they afraid of getting it ‘wrong’? Just report it, as does RawStory. … No matter what you think of it, this is news. News. Relevant, important, history-making news. It was live, on C-Span. Reality TV. Yet our most famous, trusted, 24/7/365 cable news media outlets are asleep at the wheel - or holding back. Neither is a good option.”
More considered analysis of the actual political and historical significance of Kucinich’s move was mixed. At The Huffington Post, political historian Joseph A. Palermo, the author of Robert F. Kennedy And the Death of American Idealism, headlined a blog entry “Dennis Kucinich Makes History Again - Impeach Bush!”
Palermo wrote, “Kucinich’s lengthy and detailed indictment of this wayward president is the most thorough and powerful case made to date. He outlined a litany of high crimes and misdemeanors and showed without a shadow of a doubt that George W. Bush deserves to be impeached and removed from office. Kucinich made clear that Bush has violated his oath of office and his Constitutional duty that the laws be ‘faithfully executed.’”
In contrast, Salon.com’s political blogger, Alex Koppelman, wrote dismissively, “Some liberals in the blogosphere are complaining about the dearth of coverage of Kucinich’s resolution. I have to disagree — as I’ve pointed out before, when discussing complaints of liberal bias from the right, the media is in the business of covering news. This barely qualifies; if it deserves mention in the mainstream media at all, it certainly doesn’t deserve to be accorded the status of something big and breaking. I’m sorry, but the action of a lone congressman who’s widely considered something of a laughingstock, especially when it’s clear that action will never come to anything, just isn’t especially newsworthy.”
Jim Trakas, Kucinich’s Republican opponent in next fall’s Congressional election also took the opportunity to blast his rival, complaining that “on the day his constituents first started paying $4 for a gallon of gasoline, Congressman Kucinich uses his time and efforts for more political games and not trying to solve the real problems in Washington.”
America is Dead. Turd world is complimentary to America. Have a Nice Day.
Welcome to George Bushco’s America
Welcome to Hell.
June 12th, 2008 at 12:07 am
Renter4:
The delta from higher gas prices really isn’t that significant. You got your stimulus check, didn’t you?
If you research the SUV market a bit, not all are super-expensive. If you pick one that does not require premium fuel, and negotiate a nice discount, you come out ahead of those guys who drive a Honda *hit.
June 12th, 2008 at 12:08 am
Correction:
The delta from higher gas prices
should be
The delta from lower gas mileage
June 12th, 2008 at 12:18 am
3rd Generation,
It is not a secret that the American military is stretched too thin. If Bush did not attack Iraq, it can now deal with Iran effectively. Iran needs a good whip in the butt, but what is the only measure we can dish out now? Tough, empty talk. The Ayatollahs must be really scared!
June 12th, 2008 at 12:30 am
The delta from higher gas prices really isn’t that significant. You got your stimulus check, didn’t you?
You offered me a stimulus check sometime in May, and at that time I pointed out that I don’t qualify for a stimulus check. I make as much as a Google engineer, which is frankly kind of disappointing to me; what is now left to aspire to?
Situation A) “Shitty” care for 20k costs $50 to fill once a week.
Situation B) Stylin’ SUV for 25k (knocked down from 35k!) costs $100 to fill once a week.
So yes, for the same out-of-pocket as you formerly would have had to pay just to BUY the SUV, you can now buy it and feed it for two years. You’ve got the Manolos, AND the fancy sneakers. Congratulations. I’ll drive my shitty car, thanks.
June 12th, 2008 at 12:44 am
RealEstater must have failed math. I drive a Honda Fit 120 miles a day. I get at least 40 mpg. I filled up today at $4.57/gal. That means I’m spending $68.55 per week or about $300 per month.
Now those fullsize Suburban and Expedition 4×4s are only getting 15 mpg. So if I drove one those gas guzzlers, I’d be burning 8 gallons a day or 40 gallons a week. Hmm, 40 x $4.57 = $182.80/week.
That comes to around $750 per month (with some weekend driving thrown in).
$750 - $300 = $450 per month for the “not expensive” SUV!
Wow, that’s $5400 a year just to be able to be identified as the dumbest motor vehicle owner in the State of California!
Man you are stupid.
June 12th, 2008 at 12:50 am
Renter4,
You make as much as a Google engineer, and you cannot afford to fill up the gas? What’s up with that?
In the real world, that SUV in your example should cost around $85 to fill compared to $50 for a regular car. $35 difference a week. Multiply by 52 weeks, you get $1820. You saved 10 grand on the car. Can you do the math?
June 12th, 2008 at 12:54 am
Oh, and George W. Bush is on his way to being one of the greatest Presidents in history. Seven years since the 9/11 attacks and not a single attack by Islamofascists on American soil.
And lets talk about how dismal the war is going in Iraq. The massive U.S. casualties last month. What? There weren’t massive U.S. casualties last month?
And the CIA is reporting that Al Qaeda has been essentially neutralized? Iraq is not falling apart at the seams?
Damn, just when the liberals and Democrats wanted Americans to be killed and maimed in Iraq to bolster their hatred for Bush, all of this good news breaks out!
And the environmentalists are smiling since Americans are using less gasoline today! I even heard some lower middle class American today say how grateful he is that he had to spend $82 to fill up his tank. His kids will be eating a lot of peanut butter and baloney but he’s saving the planet!
Yessir, the democrats and environmentalists will be getting all of the votes this November when people show their appreciation for high energy costs!
Obama’s slogan will be “Change is GOOD–Less is MORE!”
June 12th, 2008 at 12:55 am
Honda S-h-i-t Driver,
Did I tell you to buy a Suburban? See my previous post for a more realistic example.
June 12th, 2008 at 1:03 am
Honda S-h-i-t Driver,
Holy s-h-i-t, you really are what you drive. How many people killed so far? How many of mankind’s treasures destroyed? How much money spent so far?
Let me give you a clue. If Bush didn’t fight this war, he could’ve bought every one of you priced out renters a BA home, paid for your Suburban and filled its gas tank until the car stops running, and funded every kind of school and healthcare you need.
June 12th, 2008 at 7:41 am
3rd Generation,
Kucinich is complete and total nut. I recall reading his site when he was running for the democratic ticket in 2004. I got about two paragraphs into his site before writing the guy off as an utter lunatic. The only halfway intelligent person who ran during the last election was Wesley Clark, who was pretty much ignored because he didn’t have hardly any coverage or much of a budget to campaign with. That’s why politics are so screwed up in this country because it has little to do with intelligence and everything to do with how much money you have.
In regards to cars and gas, if you think that high gas prices will not ultimately affect the BA, think again. I’m on a number of blogs that have people from across the country. In many areas that are more heavily middle class, a lot of people from those places are having serious problems because of it. Many are farmers or heavy equipment operators. These people have no choice but to use large pieces of equipment and large trucks to haul it. They’re getting nailed by gas prices. So are many others who even though might drive smaller cars, can’t hardly afford to shove $100 a week into the tank.You have to remember that for many across the country, 40-50k is what is typically made salary-wise.That’s what my parents and most of their friends make. $5 gas is a killer.
When people in Iowa can’t afford Ipods, Iphones, or bottles of wine, then that also means that they also can’t afford as many groceries or retail goods, which in turn means that stores that might have been thinking of upgrading their servers and computer equipment will put it off and so on. All things that are money makers for the BA. Its really arrogant to think that what goes on in the rest of the country will never make it here. It will. Just watch.
In regards to cars themselves, I bought my Toyota 13 years ago back when gas in my area was 88 cents a gallon. $5 would just about fill it up and it would run for a week on that. I still have the same vehicle and it costs $40 to fill up now. We also have an old generation Prius that we inherited. It gets around 47MPG. But I’m a little wary of it because if the inverter, transaxle, traction battery, or basically anything else goes wrong, the cost of repair is insane- as in $5,000 for each of the mentioned items. The maintenance is meticulous.It took me two days to change all of the fluids ( Inverter, transaxle, engine oil, radiator coolant) If it were up to me, I’d probably go with a Fit as well because even though it gets around 10MPG less than the Prius, its mechanical simplicity would probably be better in the long term.
June 12th, 2008 at 8:06 am
Buckborden, the Honda Fit’s pretty cool. I’ve been eyeing one for my next car. 40 mpg, really? that’s pretty darn good. Not much less than a Prius, on a car that is way more fun, and can corner and stop with some ability.
Regarding SUV… Stylish, yes, to some eyes. Comfort, not so much. Less room than equivalent-sized minivans or station wagons, the space is taken up by the long hood and the high ground clearance, necessary for the style. Plus poor handling and braking. every now and then I have to do a full stop because someone pulls in front of me w/o looking. in an SUV it could easily be an accident.
June 12th, 2008 at 8:37 am
>>We also have an old generation Prius that we inherited. It gets around 47MPG. But I’m a little wary of it because if the inverter, transaxle, traction battery, or basically anything else goes wrong, the cost of repair is insane- as in $5,000 for each of the mentioned items. The maintenance is meticulous.It took me two days to change all of the fluids
This is why I keep saying, a Prius is providing false economy. You start by overpaying for the car, and just when your gas savings is starting to pay off (after 5 years or so), the car becomes a financial time bomb. Anything goes wrong with it, you basically need to replace the entire car. The battery pack will cost $10K to replace. All these people who are jumping in to catch this latest fad are non-car types who have no idea what they are getting into.
June 12th, 2008 at 8:49 am
The batteries do not cost 10k to replace. Not anywhere close to that. The real cost on a old generation Prius is more like $3,000. The batteries have a low charge/discharge cycle that only charges them 40-60%, which enables them to last for at least 10 years. There have actually been very few of these with battery problems. NYC has fleets of them that have well over 300k on them and they’re still going fine. The New Prius battery is even cheaper and there are now aftermarket options as well.For the amount of complexity these cars have, they’re actually pretty reliable.This one is already 7 years old and it still drives and looks like new. But the big IF is if one of the major components goes bad, which is getting to be costly for just about any newer vehicle. I can easily fix my old car. I wouldn’t dare venture into most newer cars.
I didn’t say I love the car but we did get it for free so at least for us, we didn’t have to pay the premium you suggest so it gave us instant gas savings right from the get-go. But even so, these cars only cost around 20-25k new, so it isn’t like they cost more than any other family sedan these days.
June 12th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Oh, and George W. Bush is on his way to being one of the greatest Presidents in history. Seven years since the 9/11 attacks and not a single attack by Islamofascists on American soil.
——–
Just one word: someone forgot to read August 2001 memo “Bin Laden determined to strike America”. Because our president was too busy to “clean up brushes”. Talk about incompetency!
—–
And lets talk about how dismal the war is going in Iraq. The massive U.S. casualties last month. What? There weren’t massive U.S. casualties last month?
——-
Definition of “massive casualities”? US casualities in month of May is only lower than other months. And oh, I forgot about it: we don’t even count Iraqi casualties. It’s amazing to see how the argument come down to such a low level that just lower US casualities is a GREAT NEWS and considered as a sign of stability in Iraq!
June 12th, 2008 at 9:50 am
>>But even so, these cars only cost around 20-25k new, so it isn’t like they cost more than any other family sedan these days.
The Prius is the equivalent of a Honda Civic. You can buy a Honda Civic for 15 grand. Believe me, there’s a huge premium when you buy the Prius. This is a high margin car for Toyota.
June 12th, 2008 at 10:06 am
The Civic and current Prius are not in the same class. The Civic is a compact economy car.The Prius is actually a mid-sized family sedan akin to the Camry, Chevy Malibu, and Ford Taurus. All of those cars cost between 19-32k. So it fits squarely within that price range. Besides- didn’t you mention that you drive a BMW? I’d say that car has a HUGE premium considering the quality is terrible.
June 12th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Bob,
Life is too short to be driving an econo car. My approach to car ownership is like this:
- Always have at least one nice car in the family
- Always pay cash for cars
- Never go to dealer for maintenance
- Always own a car for at least 10 years. This part we have in common, but the difference here is that I have an enjoyable car for 10 years, while you are just getting from point A to point B.
June 12th, 2008 at 10:11 am
I have driven Priuses when our other Toyotas have been in the shop. Sunnyvale Toyota has a fairly large lending fleet, and I’ve also driven the hybrid Highlander.
The two downsides I see to the Prius is that the highway mileage is unimpressive (although the city mileage kicks major butt), and that it isn’t what you need if you end up hauling lots of kids around. It’s perfect for a 2-child family whose kids don’t have any friends.
The Highlander drives nicely for a truck, has much less cargo capacity than the Sienna minivan, and gets more mileage in the city than on the freeway.
Anyone who buys a BMW is clearly a poser who doesn’t understand value. And unlike a house in Palo Alto, cars depreciate really fast.
June 12th, 2008 at 10:16 am
>>The Civic and current Prius are not in the same class. The Civic is a compact economy car.The Prius is actually a mid-sized family sedan akin to the Camry, Chevy Malibu, and Ford Taurus.
LOL. That’s what the marketing folks at Toyota want you to think.
>>Besides- didn’t you mention that you drive a BMW? I’d say that car has a HUGE premium considering the quality is terrible.
Actually I drive a Porsche, which is ranked #1 by JD Powers and Associates, but BMW is also highly recommended by Consumer Reports.
June 12th, 2008 at 10:21 am
>>Anyone who buys a BMW is clearly a poser who doesn’t understand value.
Only a poser if you drive a 3 Series, or any entry level model of a premium brand, e.g. Mercedes C Class, Jaguar X-Type.
June 12th, 2008 at 10:42 am
what about the magnetic radiation dangers of hybrids?
June 12th, 2008 at 11:08 am
In the real world, that SUV in your example should cost around $85 to fill compared to $50 for a regular car. $35 difference a week. Multiply by 52 weeks, you get $1820. You saved 10 grand on the car. Can you do the math?
———–
If you compare vehicles from same maker (e.g BMW SUV and BMW sedan), most of the SUVs cost more. So even after 10 grand discount, probably you are paying same price as sedan. In addition, you are paying extra on gas.
June 12th, 2008 at 11:25 am
The Prius is actually a mid-sized family sedan akin to the Camry, Chevy Malibu, and Ford Taurus.
———-
It’s true if you consider inside space. But the trade off is safety. The safety cages of Camry and many other sedan are tube-like shaped (if you look at the car from front or back) which increases sturdiness. It also keeps passengers’ body little bit inside. Could be very helpful in side impact. On other other hand, Prius is not tube-like shape. It’s more of a box-like shape if you look at it from front and behind. That’s why Prius is rated very poorly in side collision test. If you buy Prius, you do need it with side airbags.
June 12th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Similar example is Mazda3. It’s a small car but inside space is as big as any big size sedan. This one also is rated very poorly in side collision test.
June 12th, 2008 at 11:35 am
>>If you compare vehicles from same maker (e.g BMW SUV and BMW sedan), most of the SUVs cost more.
Compare BMW X5 to 5 Series sedans. The price range overlaps. Same is true with X3 and 3 Series.
June 12th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Compare BMW X5 to 5 Series sedans. The price range overlaps. Same is true with X3 and 3 Series.
————
Which dealer is giving away BMW X5 for 10 grand less when its mileage is 15/21 MPG as compare to 5 Series’s 19/29 MPG? If that is the case, I assume that this dealer is giving away lots of 5 series sedan too - may be not 10 grand, but for 5 grand discount.
June 12th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Realestater, I don’t know what you mean the delta from higher gas prices isn’t significant. I know plenty of people paying $100 per week on gas -this is for a standard commute type vehicle and standard commute- when they used to pay under $30. If you have an SUV, double that. That is anywhere from $350-$600 per month additional expense for fuel that was not there before, or $5-$6K PER YEAR! I remember those tired old arguments armchair economists like Ben Stein used to make about how buying a prius costs 7K more than a non hybrid sedan and you will *never* recoup that in gas prices hahaha. All the people that bought Priuses and didn’t listen to this sage advice were the smart ones.
June 12th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
And don’t forget that unlike real estate, gas prices will always keep going up.
June 12th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
god theres so much hate against BMW drivers here. okay i am here to confess. i’ve sinned against the burbed bible of frugality. though i’ve followed the 10 frugality commandments don’t keep lines of credit save save Ca$h, lived in a smaller yet very low-mortgage home, invested in stable quality dividend-yielding big cap stocks, walk to work, eat at home rarely out, clip coupons, etc. etc. I caved in to vice and bought a BMW. I still love that hunk of depreciating hunk of metal, and hug it every night. Its like a priest visiting that whore you know will give him a disease, but he keeps going to her because she *rocks* his prudent world!
June 12th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
My only thing against BMWs is that there are so many of them running around the BA. It’s not really that special of a vehicle, unless it’s modified or customized in some way.
June 12th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
>>I know plenty of people paying $100 per week on gas -this is for a standard commute type vehicle and standard commute- when they used to pay under $30.
I’m kind of surprised by that. I have 2 SUVs, and I’ve never had to pay over $100 a week. Those guys must live on the East Bay, but then there’s Costco gas.
June 12th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
I guess for me and cars, I frankly have never cared about them that much as long as they are reliable and well-engineered.Its funny that people often compare the quality of BMWs to Toyotas. The fact that Toyotas cost a whole heck of a lot less than BMWS yet have better reliability ratings is proof enough to indicate how well made they are.
In my family, we’ve had 2 camrys, an Avalon, and two Toyota trucks. All of them lastes at least 200,000 miles before trade and still ran fine. The Avalon- which is just as nice as any BMW for comfort- is still kicking it at 256,000 miles ( brother now owns it). My car has around 220,000 miles. They were and are absolutely flawless. None of the above mentioned vehicles were ever repaired because they never had problems.
I guess for me, with RE’s comment of how many Bimmers and Mercedes there are on the roads in the BA, they’re about as common as a Ford Taurus back home. Drive a bimmer? who freakin’ cares. Everyone else drives one. That and just about every European car I’ve seen for the last 5 years are outright ugly or stupid looking. The new BMW’s have squinty looking tail lights. They actually loom like older Acuras rather than BMWs.
But… to each his own. I’d just rather spend my money in a different way. If you buy a Bimmer, there’s nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Just like the guy with a Toyota made his/her choice when buying their car.
June 12th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
The only difference between the Toyota and the BMW owner is that the Toyota owner keeps more of his money and the BMW guy doesn’t realize that everyone else is looking at him and saying, “Ghetto”.
The same goes for all overpriced European luxury cars.
Hey Realestater, didn’t you get the memo that cars aren’t status symbols anymore? In fact, houses aren’t status symbols.
But this is the RBA where money means EVERYTHING. Can you say “shallow” or “stupid” or “You can’t take it with you”?
June 12th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
I used to commute from Redwood shores (job in a startup) to Willow Glen and that was a tank of gas for 4 work days, if I wanted to go in for 5 days I would need to fill up midweek. Back then I had a BMW 525i and now I am one of those people with a low end BMW, heh. But anyway the 5 series was about $35 to fill up, then, 2002. Today, I have a small BMW that just last week cost $69 YES $69 to fill up. It is a smaller tank than my 5-series. They both use premium gas which is part of the problem, and $4.50/gallon. So if I had my redwood shores commute today, I would be paying $100 per week on gas- and I don’t live in the east bay, but many do.
June 12th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
And like Bob said so well, MOST Americans aren’t like the rich folks in the RBA. Most American households don’t make $120,000/yr or even $65,000/yr.
So with the high price of gas people are cutting back. You’re already hearing about how restaurant business is slowing down. These high energy prices are just sucking dollars out of the economy.
But of course, none of this will affect the RBA where real estate and jobs and salaries are immune from such trivial matters!
June 12th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
SiO2 Says: Buckborden, the Honda Fit’s pretty cool. I’ve been eyeing one for my next car. 40 mpg, really? that’s pretty darn good. Not much less than a Prius, on a car that is way more fun, and can corner and stop with some ability.
Thanks, SiO2. I’m quite secure and happy with my Fit, even if it is a “high school” car. Fit is a GREAT CAR. I fill up every 10 or 12 days, and it’s way under $40 (still). And, so far, with 2K miles on the car, I’m averaging 38.6 MPG. It cracks me up to read about these insecure fat cats on this post who are so obsessed with their egos that they MUST drive a gas hog (and I do believe it’s pecker envy in action). I said before, I’m quite secure. I don’t need the realestaters to tell me what it means to be MACHO. I economize to save money, and for no other reason than it makes good sense, which seems to be scarce these days, judging by some of the tripe posted here by idiots who think that money is GOD.
June 12th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Realestater loser:
If I am what I drive (the Fit guy), and if that is boring to you, that doesn’t concern me in the least. I know who I am, and you don’t matter. You represent nothing but greed and out of control ego, as do most of you rich pigs. Eventually, you will pay for your consumption and greed, and no amount of money is going to save you.
June 12th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
” I don’t need the realestaters to tell me what it means to be MACHO. I economize to save money, and for no other reason than it makes good sense, which seems to be scarce these days, judging by some of the tripe posted here by idiots who think that money is GOD.”
I would always choose a man who is secure enough to drive a car which makes sense for his situation rather then one who needs a car to boost his ego. I find a man who has enough sense to put money into his 401k more appealing then one who puts the money on his driveway.
June 13th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Well said, Stepford. I often think of the letter to Dear Abby from the guy who said he would rather give his fiancee a house in her name than waste it on a diamond engagement ring. Houses appreciate, diamonds are overpriced. Very few women wrote in favor of him, but I think he had the right idea. I wouldn’t (and didn’t) marry someone who went for flash over substance, and I pity anyone hitched to that type, male or female. In that type of relationship, when the money runs out, so does the commitment — because it was conditional all along.