June 10, 2008

Gas hits $5 a gallon in Redwood City, Bay Area, California

Here in the Bay Area, we are proud of blazing new paths – of leading the nation and world through innovation. We invented the PC. We invented Internet. We re-invented how to enroll your children to school. And now, we invent the $5 a gallon gas:

Congrats Bay Area. We’re #1!

Comments (219) -- Posted by: burbed @ 12:21 am

219 Responses to “Gas hits $5 a gallon in Redwood City, Bay Area, California”

  1. Er Says:

    Out of curiosity, why do you claim the Internet was invented in the Bay Area? What’s the basis of this assertion?

  2. burbed Says:

    Truthiness.

  3. Trader Joe Says:

    Oooohhh, V Power! Worth every penny.

  4. 3rd Generation Says:

    1. Arrest and Impeach George Bushco and Dick Cheneyburton.
    2. Imprison indefinitely
    3. Revoke passport.
    4. Seize assets.
    5. Change national colors from Red White and Blue to Orange in honor of Countrywide Savings and Orangello Mozillo who should be in the cage next to B & C.

    America is Dead. Turd world would be a compliment to America. Have a Nice Day.

    Welcome to George Bush’s America
    Welcome to Hell.

  5. RealEstater Says:

    Wall Street Journal agrees with RealEstater: Go buy a gas guzzling SUV and take advantage of the discounts!

    http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/105216/When-Buying-a-Gas-Guzzler-Makes-Sense

  6. bob Says:

    I was watching one of those doom and gloom TV shows last night. IT was on the History channel, which I understand is tailored for old men who enjoy making model railroads and collecting beer signs, but still- it was kind of creepy in a way.

    It was about the worst case scenario if gas became say- $8 a gallon across the US. This show was actually sort of old, as in made last year per the copyright at the end. But it mentioned the problem we already see, which is the incredibly simple equation that most of what we eat, buy, drive, and live by is powered by combustible petroleum products. When fuel prices rise, so too do food, consumer goods, and everything else inbetween. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a big honkin’ truck driver or a goodie-two-shoe hybrid driver. Either way, we all get screwed evenly.

    The radio today had stories of protests in France, Belgium, and Germany over the cost of diesel, which though enables Europeans to drive tiny turbo diesel cars that get 50-70MPG ( thanks to higher pollution tolerances) now costs $10 a gallon. Farmers, fishermen, and truckers are now in a position there where they cannot make a profit due to the cost of fuel. So in some respects, what is happening now is already indicating something potentially devastating.

    On the other hand, I can’t help but feel that this could also be the work of yet another over-exuberant bubble. First it was the dot-com, which afterwards, all those investors jumped to real estate, which afterwards they jumped into commodities, like fuel and agriculture. Wall Street seems to function primarily on get rich quick schemes, and the latest could very well be gas futures. If that be the case, then government legislation should enact a plan to raise margins for investors because futures should only be used for those who are actively involved in the receiving end, which none of these investors are.

    But… the good news is that if fuel prices and everything else keeps going up, then this will cause the housing crash to pick up speed and crash even worse. As we all know, Americans don’t save anything and seldom prepare for anything beyond the present day. If Americans have no money, they can’t buy houses can they? Then again, houses might be the least of our concerns in the coming future. They might become outright liabilities because if we are indeed heading into an era of protracted recession caused by a fuel problem, then your best option is going to be in having the ability to be mobile and fluid versus confined to a single area.

    -end doom and gloom post.

    Meanwhile, it is nice and sunny today!

  7. Pralay Says:

    But… the good news is that if fuel prices and everything else keeps going up, then this will cause the housing crash to pick up speed and crash even worse.
    ———

    CNN/Money: Places like Beverly Hills, Calif. and Greenwich, Conn. have been hit by steep price declines, and a jump in foreclosures. And this is only the beginning of summer.

  8. bob Says:

    Parlay,
    Those reports suggest the whole domino effect: crappy hoods going down first, followed by the cream at the top.Its a trickle-down effect. The irony is that people feel that those crappy hoods with dramatically slashed prices are a real steal. You haven’t seen anything yet. The cycle has to run it’s course first and work its way through the entire spectrum. That’s only begun.

  9. rick Says:

    bob,
    There is a lot of debate on Economist.com about commodities future speculation.

  10. bob Says:

    Rick,
    I have a strong suspicion that a potentially significant percentage of oil prices is tied to speculation. A couple of days ago, OPEC said they would not be ramping up production because their own projections were that oil should be more like $70 a barrel, not the $135 or so that it is now. If that’s the case, then oil is quite possibly overinflated by as much as 50% by pure speculation.

    Again, this to me is starting to smell more and more like the latest bubble: Everyone was told that commodities were “the place to be” in a recession, and like lemmings, everyone shoved all their money into it. The good thing is that this sort of bubble tends to self-destruct rather quickly because the damage they induce also causes the economy to deteriorate.

  11. Some Guy Says:

    Yeah, impeach George Bush!

    That’ll instantly:
    1. Strengthen the dollar,

    2. Increase crude supplies, and
    3. Decrease demand for oil.

    Gas will be $1.00 a gallon by Thursday. Basic economics, really.

    Oh, and increase taxes on those mean old oil companies, because then we can use the money to fund alternative fuels that compete with the industry we’re taxing! It’s not like a corporation accountable to its shareholders would respond to increased taxation by raising prices!

  12. bob Says:

    Here’s a clip from that report:

    ALGIERS (Reuters) – OPEC President Chakib Khelil said on Monday there was a speculative bubble in the oil markets, which but for a weak dollar and geopolitical problems should be trading at around $70 a barrel.

    “In terms of fundamentals, there is no problem of supply and demand. There is much more a bubble due to speculation, which is based on a depreciating dollar and geopolitical tensions,” Khelil, who is also Algerian Energy and Mines Minister, was quoted by Algerian official news agency APS as saying.

    “The problem is the economic crisis in the United States, which led the dollar to fall sharply, and threats against Iran, which have increased geopolitical tensions.”

    “If there were not these factors, oil prices would probably be at $70,” he added.

    Now to add to this, Ben Bernanke mentioned today that he felt that the economy was poised for some sort of turnaround. That doesn’t really mean anything other than that he is priming the market for an inevitable rate increase, which in my opinion is greatly needed. The drastic reduction is responsible for the weaker dollar, which as mentioned by Mr. Khelil is part of the problem behind higher oil prices. So in other words, the FED has no choice but to raise rates or face the consequence of out-of-control oil prices.

    The US is in a pickle: The public was bankrupted by buying overvalued homes and in an attempt to save property values, the consumer was actually hurt even further, thus the hope for a recovery in housing is all but nill for the foreseeable future because whatever the Fed does,the results will be the same, which is that the buying power of the public is weak. The answer of course is so stupidly simple, but we’ve known this for years: Prices have to come down to levels that incomes actually support. No amount of fiddling, rate cutting, or bailing will prevent this, and as we’ve seen, doing so only makes matters worse.

  13. RoxBoy Says:

    “We invented the PC. We invented Internet.” Burbed your wrong. BayArea didn’t invent the internet. Al Gore did.

  14. mrbogue Says:

    ha ha… you’re one funny guy RoxBoy.

  15. Prof. Bleen Says:

    Let’s debunk that “Al Gore invented the internet” myth, shall we?

    http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

  16. Pralay Says:

    Isn’t it another invention by Dick Armey?
    http://www.ontheissues.org/askme/internet.htm

    The story that Gore said he ‘invented’ the internet was created by Dick Armey, a Republican member of Congress. Armey’s imaginary wording was then picked up by the media, since what Gore actually said wasn’t a good enough story.

  17. california resident Says:

    Impeach Bush? Bush is Hitler? Bush is responsible for the current price of gasoline?

    I’ll have to report you to the school librarian and have them take your computer privileges away. Why is it that all of left wing wackos seem to hang out in the RBA?

    If B Hussein Obama bin Laden is elected President, then watch all energy prices go through the roof and it won’t be due to speculation. The dumocrats are just going tax the oil companies.

    Of course, higher taxes on energy will make the price at the pump go down. And who said Democrats had half a brain?

  18. RoxBoy Says:

    If Al Gore didn’t invent the internet, oh well, at least he invented Global Warming.

  19. leavin' the bay area! Says:

    Well, the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center did have the second website ever made, after CERN. And probably SRI was behind Darpanet. So yeah, bay area could claim a lot of the internets. Not the tubes, though, that’s strickly an Alaskan thing.

  20. madhaus Says:

    Have you priced diesel fuel lately? It’s been over $5 a gallon for a while. I’m sure snickering at all those soccer moms driving their honkin’ big SUVs to drop one kid off at preschool. They can feel safe inside those mother-truckers. And poor.

    Oh great, the other troll came back. I wonder what would happen if they got into an argument? One would tout real estate in certain areas, and the other would call him a liberal for encouraging anyone to buy here.

  21. WillowGlenner Says:

    I think the poster above was ridiculing the linking of Bush to the oil and inflation problems we have- well sorry- Bush IS the problem or a significant portion of it.

    When Bush took office, the US federal/national debt was approx 3.8 trillion dollars. This is financed by asian banks primarily and the debt had been declining for the entire decade of the 90s, thanks to record surpluses in the Clinton era and some prudent tax strategies early on in the decade, including Bush I’s breach with his “no new taxes” pledge.

    Bush II came in office, cut taxes and started wars. After 7 years of Bush leadership, we now have a federal debt of over 9 trillion dollars. It has more than doubled with Bush in office, and remember the prior debt was the culmination of debt attributed to ALL presidents not just Clinton. Dubya spent 200 years of debt in just one term! Iraq costs 15 billion per month, and thats just combat ops not residual costs like medical care for all the returning veterans. Bush implemented that HUGE beaurocracy the dept of homeland security, a complete waste that gave us Katrina, and the Bush medicare drug plan is a trillion dollar boondoggle. Thats where the money went – did we get our money’s worth?

    Due to this massive overspending by Bush and republicans in congress, the dollar crashed against all other currencies and consequently, commodities PRICED in dollars are going through the roof. Had the dollar been stable or risen, as it did in the Clinton era, oil would be $75 bbl- NOT $135. The crash in the dollar accounts for almost double the price.

    Dumbya is the stagflation president and his reckless term will take decades to repair.

  22. WillowGlenner Says:

    by the way, it is not a given that real estate will crash when inflation comes back. Real estate is an inflation hedge- it may holds its value, which is what has happened this entire decade.

  23. california resident Says:

    I guess it’s all Bush’s fault. In your little diatribe I didn’t see one word about 9/11. Oh, that’s right, it really wasn’t anything REAL.

    Bushco made up the entire “War on Terror.” Osama bin Hidin and the rest of Al Qaeda, the Islamofascists AND Saddam were just nice folks with bad PR people.

    And when B Hussein Obama bin Laden is elected he will “show us the way” with his diplomacy and tact! Soon the world will love America again, the troops will all come home and Iraq will return to, ah, whatever.

    Right? That’s what the new castrati liberals believe–”Peace from negotiation and conflict resolution”. I even heard a prominent Democrat in the State legislature from the Bay Area say that he believes that we no longer need ANY armed forces! He said that we should desolve the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. All we needed was a domestic police force because “No one is going to invade America today.”

    Wow, just think of all the money we’ll save! And the price of oil will drop because the dollar will strengthen.

    I’m tingling will joy just thinking about B. Hussein Obama’s arrival–He’s the Messiah returning to save us from Hell. Hell brought on by George W. Bush.

  24. madhaus Says:

    Political arguments must include impact on real estate. This is a real estate board.

    So, who would be worse for housing prices, McCain or Obama? How did 9/11 affect real estate prices in the RBA? Why would anyone support Bush because of 9/11 anyway? He was warned attacks were imminent and he blew it off (“Okay, you covered your ass.”) He knew OBL was in Afghanistan and moved troops to Iraq, with no AQ whatsoever, despite this. Yeah, there’s AQ now, because of the invasion. And the impact on real estate? Skyrocketing oil prices that have pounded the exurbs.

  25. WillowGlenner Says:

    Whichever candidate trashes the dollar will be better for real estate, because RE does well in inflationary environments. Its hard to know who will be the bigger wreckless spender – decades ago the democrats were the spenders and republicans fiscally conservative but that is now obsolete. McCain seems to still support war, although he has always been pretty good with pork spending. But war is too expensive so my guess is – McCain crashes the dollar more than Obama, so McCain is better for Real estate. A wag, I know. Doesn’t matter anyway- Obama wins this one. Bush destroyed us and it will take decades to recover. And as for anybody who blames this Bush mess on 911- for each of the 3000 people who died in 911- Bush spent TWO BILLION dollars of taxpayer money. The families probably would have rather had the cash. And for the 6 trillion Bush added to our debt- where is Osama Bin Laden?

  26. WillowGlenner Says:

    You know, when these right wing nuts say “Barack HUSSEIN Obama” they really expose themselves for the idiot bigots that they are. Grow up, really.

  27. Prof. Bleen Says:

    To be fair, Bush isn’t himself responsible for the predatory lending crisis. Isn’t that, like the $500 billion S&L bailout some years ago, the legacy of the Reagan “Let’s Legalize Business Crime” initiative so popular with rich Republicans?

  28. Pralay Says:

    Bushco made up the entire “War on Terror.” Osama bin Hidin and the rest of Al Qaeda,
    ——-

    Did Bush made up Osama or Al Qaeda? No.

    Did Bush made up “War On Terror”? YES.

    And I have a news for you. The “War On Terror” was dead after 2004 Presidential Election. There was no orange color terror alert in 2004 Christmas evening.

  29. Real Estater Says:

    Bush took the country to war because Saddam plotted to assassinate his dad. It’s as simple as that. The rest of his cronies wanted Iraq for various reasons, and they took advantage of the opportunity to realize their agenda.

    Frankly, I was very surprised so many Americans “bought” the war at the time. If one were to do a psychological study, it probably can be traced to the same sort of mind set that caused so many Germans to support Hitler to invade other countries for self-justified reasons. I would describe it as a combination of arrogance and utter ignorance. We have no one to blame but ourselves for following this idiot for 2 terms. In case you’re wondering, no, I do not support the troops.

  30. Real Estater Says:

    If you look at where the Bush support came from, it’s mostly in “fly-over country”. In a place like the Bay Area where all the smart people are, there is little support for him.

  31. calif resident Says:

    So the “flyover” country residents are nothing but ignorant hopeless gun loving, bible thumping trolls while the people who are “smart” and educated live in places like the RBA and NYC.

    God, you really have guts to say things like that.

    That’s right up there with, “We all know that negroes are an inferior race since they don’t have the intelligence like white people do.”

    Or, you can’t trust anyone who supports the military because they’re nothing but raving homicidal maniacs.

    Or it’s all the Jews fault–Hitler had it right all along.

    I wonder why so many people in this country think that people from the left coast are just a bunch incredibly bigoted losers.

    I have information for you from “flyover country”. The folks in Iowa are infinitely more superior to the vast majority of the citizens of the RBA.

    How does this affect real estate prices? Well, if the economy crumbles, even the RBA will be decimated. Because the RBA NEEDS those “ignorant” flyover citizens to keep the country running.

    I’ve never seen so many pathetic people as I’ve seen on this board.

  32. calif resident Says:

    Real Estater: Question. Have you ever done anything for someone else that didn’t result in a benefit to your own situation/wealth/status?

    In other words, have you ever sacrificed ANYTHING for someone else or your community or country?

    Would you have sacrificed your life charging Omaha Beach in 1944 or flying in a B-17 over Berlin?

    Would you have joined the Continental Army at Valley Forge freezing you butt and starving wearing only rags and no boots? Would you have held the line at Gettysburg while your fellow soldiers dropped on either side?

    Or are you one of those people that only like the benefits you get from a world that was created on the graves of better men than you?

    Don’t fret–most people in our world today look out for number one. You have plenty of miserable company in the RBA.

    You guys think that you’re ahead of the idiots now fighting Islamofacists in Afghanistan and Iraq. But you’re the loser because you’ll live your entire life as a self-serving, narcissistic person who absolutely no one will miss when you die.

    The Bay Area RE prices are a testament to people who only value the dollar.

    I’ll take flyover country anytime.

  33. WillowGlenner Says:

    I’m with you on not supporting the troops RealEstater. I think most of us are too young to understand the resentment that many felt towards Vietnam veterans and then the guilt that existed for years after that fiasco. Well Iraq brought it back in spades. The reason people resented the Vietnam vets is because the military is a whole subculture that feeds on itself. The military and military influence on red states is what caused the Idiot prince Bush to be elected a second time. It was as if the military rallied around their own worthless war and couldn’t criticize from within. I am certain that is the same thing that happened in Vietnam, except in 1968 those troops were just a bunch of drafted 19 year olds.

    And by the way “calif resident”- California receives less than 70 cents back for every dollar we send to the federal government. There are other coastal states like CA- New York, New Jersey to name a few. Where does our money go- to flyover country thats where. Flyover country is a DRAIN on the CA economy not a booster to it. CA is the 6th largest economy behind france. There is almost nothing CA gets from flyover country but bad presidents like Bush and stupid wars. And thats a fact.

  34. Real Estater Says:

    >>Real Estater: Question. Have you ever done anything for someone else that didn’t result in a benefit to your own situation/wealth/status?

    Absolutely. I’m a firm believer in charity. Within the past month, I have:
    - Volunteered for a day at a homeless shelter
    - Donated money to my local library
    - Donated money to the Red Cross
    - Volunteered for a field trip event at my local school

    I’m not making this up. You happen to hit upon a topic I believe in strongly.

  35. madhaus Says:

    RE finally says something that makes sense (#28) and then spoils it with the utter stupidity of #29. Bush doesn’t have much support in “fly-over country” now either. Last I heard, the only states still supporting him were Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming, and that was 4 months ago.

    As to all the smart Bay Areans, the week after 9/11, some neighbor we’d never seen before took it on himself to ring every doorbell to ask people to put up flags. I guess RE can claim that my neighborhood is full of stupid people, although the PRIZM zip profile says otherwise.

    Sunnyvale, CA 94087′s most common PRIZM NE Segments are:
    Number Name
    29 American Dreams
    16 Bohemian Mix
    07 Money & Brains
    26 The Cosmopolitans
    04 Young Digerati

    PRIZM Zip Code Lookup — You could spend a few hours on here.

  36. Real Estater Says:

    >>Would you have sacrificed your life charging Omaha Beach in 1944 or flying in a B-17 over Berlin?

    >>Would you have joined the Continental Army at Valley Forge freezing you butt and starving wearing only rags and no boots? Would you have held the line at Gettysburg while your fellow soldiers dropped on either side?

    calif resident,

    What you have is a brain-washed mind filled with fantasies caused by military indoctrination. All these things you stated are not so noble. You can find the exact same sort of thoughts from the commies in North Korea.

  37. Real Estater Says:

    madhaus,

    DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

  38. madhaus Says:

    RE, which one?

    actually you are making lots of sense on this topic. You seem passionate rather than your usual detached posing. A much more honest side of you.

  39. Real Estater Says:

    LOL. I was talking about myself!

  40. WillowGlenner Says:

    madhaus, Willow Glen 95125 has that exact same prizm profile, in the same order. It could be that all of Silicon Valley burbs are the same. My guess might be that the hills, Saratoga and Los Altos hills etc might deviate some.

  41. Pralay Says:

    I’ll take flyover country anytime.
    ———–

    calif resident,
    No no no! You should take Iraq. How come you are not the guy who is getting deployed to Iraq?

  42. madhaus Says:

    WG, the order they present them in doesn’t matter, if you want it in statistical order you have to pay them for the service. Go ahead and plug in as many zip codes as you want, it’s kind of fun. I’m pretty sure that Los Altos Hills was stuff like “Winners Circle” and the like: high income, older couples. There’s a place on the site where they show how the categories are organized, they break them into age groups, income groups, etc.

    RE, I’m rewarding positive behavior only. Same as with my kids. :)

  43. madhaus Says:

    Pralay, it’s amazing how those chest-thumpers never offer to join the Army and fight for our right to have cheap oil and sweetheart deals for government looters like Blackwater. I hear the troops are kind of stressed, so there is a good chance they’d even take a mouthbreather like calif resident.

  44. Pralay Says:

    I wonder why so many people in this country think that people from the left coast are just a bunch incredibly bigoted losers.
    ————-

    Bush’s approval rating: less than 30.
    Cheney’s approval rating: single digit.

    What you call “so many people” got to be this small minority who still approve Bush-Cheney.

    And losers? The real losers of this country are those security moms who thought their children would be saved by Bush from a Beslan-like massacre. All those moms got is a veto in SCHIPS bill.

  45. Pralay Says:

    I wonder why so many people in this country think that people from the left coast are just a bunch incredibly bigoted losers.
    ————-

    Bush’s approval rating: less than 30.
    Cheney’s approval rating: single digit.

    What you call “so many people” got to be this small minority who still approve Bush-Cheney.

    And losers? The real losers of this country are those security moms who thought their children would be saved by Bush from a Beslan-like massacre. All those moms got is a veto in SCHIPS bill.

  46. Pralay Says:

    I wonder why so many people in this country think that people from the left coast are just a bunch incredibly bigoted losers.
    ————-

    Bush’s approval rating: less than 30.
    Cheney’s approval rating: single digit.

    What you call “so many people” got to be this small minority who still approve Bush-Cheney.

    And losers? The real losers of this country are those security moms who thought their children would be saved by Bush from a Beslan-like massacre. Those moms – all they got from him is a veto in SCHIPS bill.

  47. burbed Says:

    FWIW, if you look at campaign donation maps, there’s actually a pretty interesting blotch of big donations from Manhattan’s Upper East Side to the Bush-Cheney campaign in 2004. So, it’s not always flyover country.

  48. Pralay Says:

    it’s amazing how those chest-thumpers never offer to join the Army…..
    ———-

    I think they have “other priorities” – just like Dick “Five-Deferment” Cheney. :)

  49. Real Estater Says:

    While Bush’s daughter is enjoying honeymoon in Europe, other people’s sons and daughters are sent to Iraq to die for a non-cause.

  50. Real Estater Says:

    >>FWIW, if you look at campaign donation maps, there’s actually a pretty interesting blotch of big donations from Manhattan’s Upper East Side to the Bush-Cheney campaign in 2004.

    Come on, that’s the Jewish contingency. I’ll stop here.

  51. burbed Says:

    No, the Jewish contingency is the Upper West Side. I’m afraid you have your stereotypes wrong. Upper East Side is so old money that they wouldn’t have let Jews own real estate back then.

  52. madhaus Says:

    No, the Jewish contingency is the Upper West Side. I’m afraid you have your stereotypes wrong. Upper East Side is so old money that they wouldn’t have let Jews own real estate back then.

    Oh good, we’re back to Real Estate again. We can talk about Restrictive Covenants and Gentlemens’ Agreements. I think that’s still going on at Fishers Island.

  53. burbed Says:

    If only we were so lucky to have New York’s famed co-op system. It’s sad – their residents can turn away Madonna from buying real estate because she’s not good enough. That should be possible here as well!

  54. bob Says:

    Arguments like these are totally stupid. Either it’s Bush’s fault, the super-liberal’s fault, flyover land’s fault, The Bay Area’s fault, or basically everything except the real problem which is that the US has been fueling its economy for years almost entirely on pure fluff and debt.

    All we do these days is try to pull fast one over whoever at the quickest convenience. That’s what the last 2 bubbles, and perhaps the latest oil bubble is all about: Make a POS look all pretty, tied up with a bow, then pass it on to some stupid shmuck who thinks they too are going to get rich quick.

    Well, that has caught up to us in the form of the state of our economy as it stands, which is to say that we are now a country of bag holders. If you bought a house in the last 4-5 years, then you’re a bag holder.

    The financial situation in the US is basically setup to eventually drain away all the cash from the publics pockets and into an increasingly small contingent at the top. It’s easy to do too: tell people that investing in such and such is a GREAT IDEA and people will gladly do so. The last several bubbles prove just how eager people are willing to part with their money on thinly veiled promises. So much so that I can assure you that a new bubble is undoubtedly being cooked up as we speak to further allow the economy to function by parting the earning public of their money. Since we don’t actually make squat anymore to export, that’s the only way we can function as an economy.

  55. austindweller Says:

    >> And by the way “calif resident”- California receives less than 70 cents back for every dollar we send to the federal government. There are other coastal states like CA- New York, New Jersey to name a few. Where does our money go- to flyover country thats where. Flyover country is a DRAIN on the CA economy not a booster to it. CA is the 6th largest economy behind france.

    This in a nutshell was what I think is 100% true. BA salaries do not provide the standard of living that one would expect in other states. Where does the money go ? Mostly in taxes. And how much of those taxes CA residents get back in the form of benefits ? None. What more, I think moving there basically means taking a cut in salary even though the number is high. I think you should move there if you get 3 times what you could get in other states.

  56. austindweller Says:

    >> And by the way “calif resident”- California receives less than 70 cents back for every dollar we send to the federal government. There are other coastal states like CA- New York, New Jersey to name a few. Where does our money go- to flyover country thats where. Flyover country is a DRAIN on the CA economy not a booster to it. CA is the 6th largest economy behind france.

    This in a nutshell is 100% true. BA salaries do not provide the standard of living that one would expect in other states. Where does the money go ? Mostly in taxes. And how much of those taxes CA residents get back in the form of benefits ? None. What more, I think moving there basically means taking a cut in salary even though the number is high. I think you should move there if you get 3 times what you could get in other states.

  57. WillowGlenner Says:

    bob if you bought a bay area house in the past 4-5 years you are NOT a bag holder, come on. You might, MIGHT be a bag holder if you bought something in July 07, but thats about it. I know- I bought a house in December 06 and made money on it- even now.

  58. bob Says:

    WillowGlenner,
    oh really? Have you sold it? Do you have cash in hand from “all the money you’ve made” from the house? If not, then you haven’t actually made anything at all and in reality are in debt for whatever remains of your payment.

    This little housing bust party has only gotten started, so I think it is a bit early to claim that you’ve done well on your purchase, which if made in 06 was right at the very start of the downward cycle.You’ll have a nice bag in your hand soon enough.

    Anyhow, buying a home as some sort of money making scheme is stupid anyway. I myself have actual cash savings and investments that really do make me money that I can hold in my hand. It isn’t merely a theoretical value of a liability.

  59. WillowGlenner Says:

    Again, bob, please try to have a little perspective here. You claimed anybody who bought a house in the past FOUR OR FIVE YEARS is a bagholder. Are you kidding? What kind of alternate universe do you live in, really.

    Lets pick an arbitrary zipcode, how about 94087 which I know very little about, and find some houses on redfin with a last sale date 4-5 years ago and see if the people selling now are bagholders.

    heres one- sold in 2004 for 875K now $1,249.
    http://www.redfin.com/CA/Sunnyvale/942-CHEHALIS-Dr-94087/home/1013004

    $599 in 2003, now 929K
    http://www.redfin.com/CA/Sunnyvale/1657-MEADOWLARK-Ln-94087/home/1083654

    heres one from 2006- $905K in May 2006- THE PEAK, now for sale for $1099.
    http://www.redfin.com/CA/Sunnyvale/1202-LIME-Dr-94087/home/1802540

  60. bob Says:

    None of those houses have actually sold have they? Nope, in fact one of them has been on the market for quite some time now. There’s lots of homes in my neighborhood that are for sale too, but none of them are selling. Well, perhaps a few, but I know for a fact that some of them were sold for far less than what they were last sold for.One was bank owned in fact.There’s a difference between what you’re asking for a home and what you actually get.

    The fact that all of the homes you listed were purchased recently has me to believe that the people who are selling HAVE to sell or they are screwed. Why would you buy in 2005,2006,2007 only to sell again? That is completely idiotic. Why buy a house and live in it less time than you could’ve easily rented?

    And again- tell me exactly what you plan on doing with all the money that you have in your pockets, right this very minute, from all that income your house makes for you as you live in it. Also- if you sold, how would you make money? The only way you could do that would be to move elsewhere cheaper, and again, that would only make sense if you actually made more than what you paid, which at this point I again seriously doubt you will be able to do in the next 5 years or more. Otherwise, your options are only to buy ANOTHER overpriced house in the BA. If you had perhaps sold in say-2004, then you’d probably be able to buy the same house you sold for less. But that’s not the case if you bought in 2006.

  61. RoxBoy Says:

    Osama BinLaden planned the 9/11 attack on purpose because he knew that if America was under attack, Bush would attack Iraq the first thing. Bush needs a reason to attack Iraq and he could not justify to attack Iraq unless something like 9/11 happened. BinLaden hates Hussein because Hussein actually seeked out and destroyed the Al_Queda network. But Hussein made a grave mistakes by claiming that his military had Weapons of Mass Destruction and that gave Bush the reason to invade Iraq. Bush also lied and bullshited the American people and fabricated many of the reports to justify the war on Iraq. In hindsight, BinLaden is smart, very smart. He wants to destroy Hussein, but the only way he could do that was by attacking America. America cant be in Iraq forever. When the last american troop leave, Al-Queda will have Iraq to themselves. In the end, Bush spends trillions of dollars fighting a war for BinLaden. Come to think about it, BinLaden is no dummy. Bush is.

  62. RoxBoy Says:

    WillowGlen is right. Smart and educated people live near the water: calif, oregon, washington, ny, new england, etc. In fact, if Calif was a separate country, we would be the 10th largest economy in the world. California and New York probably carry half the entire US economy. Without california and the silicon valley, the world would still be living like cavemen. Its not a coincidence that smart educated people also happen to be democrats. Is it a coincidence that ignorant stupid people in flyover country are republicans?

  63. bob Says:

    Yes- I agree. There is something in the water in coastal areas that make people real smart.Its like a fountain of intelligence. I remind myself every single day how smarter I am after moving here from TN. I could feel the power of my intelligence actually increase the minute I entered the CA border. Even on a plane, I tend to feel stupider as I fly to visit my family.

  64. RoxBoy Says:

    Hi Bob, you obviously sound smarter than most folks I know in TN already.

  65. buckborden Says:

    Excuse me, but isn’t this thread about gas prices? Am I in the wrong arena or are we just obsessed with making money again today? BTW, the stock market crashed again, in case nobody noticed. Your money is now worth even less, and the price of oil skyrocketed again. Your McMansion won’t save you.

  66. SiO2 Says:

    Gas prices… I’ll believe there’s a crisis when I no longer see Hummers going 55 mph in 35 mph residential areas. Gee, how much time did he save by flooring it for 200 yards only to hit the brakes to turn into the side street?

  67. Slurbed Says:

    # Pralay Says:
    June 10th, 2008 at 8:39 am

    “CNN/Money: Places like Beverly Hills, Calif. and Greenwich, Conn. have been hit by steep price declines, and a jump in foreclosures. And this is only the beginning of summer.”

    I looked up the Trulia data for Greenwich, CT. While the median sale price for the 06831 zip code supposedly declined by 15% in the time period that ended in April, the overall town median sale price increased by 37% recently, comparing Mar-May ’08 to Dec-Feb. It was only a flesh wound! Prices in the RGCA (Real Gold Coast Area) never go down, not really; pay no attention to the contracting boundaries! Most of the new wealth in that town comes from hedge funds, and unlike land, they are always making more dollars.

    Median prices there will increase by $100k a month, for the next straight 24 months. You heard it here first.

  68. Prof. Bleen Says:

    SiO2 #63:

    Sorry to disappoint you, but as long as there are American males insecure about the size of their genitalia, there will be Hummers doing 55 MPH in residential areas. And F-350s use for commuting to office jobs. A little thing like exorbitant gas prices is not going to get in the way of compensating for one’s shortcomings, so to speak.

  69. SiO2 Says:

    Prof Bleen, that’s pretty funny. I noticed that American-born contractors tend to drive F350s with loud exhausts and big wheels. But immigrant contracts drive stock white Toyota Tundras, and sometimes submit themselves to the indignity of a minivan!

    I guess driving a Hummer with $5 gas is a way of demonstrating one’s personal wealth.

  70. buckborden Says:

    Driving anything that gets less than 30 mpg these days is advertising that your equipment doesn’t measure up. Me? I have a Honda Fit, 40 mpg and have never owned anything but a high mileage 4-cyl. Draw your own conclusions about my equipment (which comes standard with the model, if you’ll pardon the pun).

  71. madhaus Says:

    WillowGlenner and Bob,
    As the resident 94087 maven, I want to comment on those 3 properties WG chose. Chehalis (Cupertino School District) appears to be pending and was only on the market 2 weeks. I visited that house, the extra space was an addition over the garage which gave 2 extra bedrooms, a full bath, and a tiny bonus room that worked as a small office (very small). The addition was ONLY over the garage. The city no longer allows that style of addition, second floors must now be set back. The price was, in my opinion, priced correctly for the neighborhood, to sell fairly quickly. I suspect it will sell at close to the asking price.

    Meadowlark is Santa Clara school district and is overpriced at $929K, which is why it has not sold yet. It’s the smallest of the three houses and the least appealing schools, despite the hype in the ad. The kitchen’s old. Finally, 1650 across the street has been on the market for 4 months (1.09 mil, 2 story).

    Lime is Cherry Chase elementary, best in Sunnyvale SD (kind of like Palo Alto is best California school district). I have a friend who lives in that neighborhood and calls it the “cocktail fruits subdivision.” The house has been on the market for an entire day. I think it’s slightly overpriced because it’s on the corner of 2 secondary arterials into that neighborhood, although some might like that it’s across the street from a very nice park for under-10 age group. So maybe the price isn’t too bad, house is a smallish 4/2 with some nice updates.

    Anyway, my conclusion is only one of these properties will continue sitting on the market long and I agree with WG.

  72. RealEstater Says:

    buckborden Says:
    >>Driving anything that gets less than 30 mpg these days is advertising that your equipment doesn’t measure up.

    Wrong. Saving gas does not equate to saving money. You can buy a Prius that saves plenty of gas, but cost more to buy than an equivalent Civic.

    You can buy a SUV at a discount right now that offers you enough savings to fill up for years, and you’d be traveling in style and comfort.

    Honda Fit is for high schoolers!

  73. RealEstater Says:

    >>Anyway, my conclusion is only one of these properties will continue sitting on the market long and I agree with WG.

    In other words, there is no downturn in the real Bay Area. Your friend Pralay is smoking dope with his data analysis.

  74. Renter4 Says:

    You can buy a SUV at a discount right now that offers you enough savings to fill up for years, and you’d be traveling in style and comfort.

    You know this is called Shoe Math among the girly demographic, right?

    There was a terribly expensive pair of, I don’t know, Manolos, that were on sale! Only $350 instead of $450! So I bought them. And with the $100 I saved, I bought a really cute pair of sneakers!

    You keep making this kind of argument.

  75. 3rd Generation Says:

    What a coincidence. Bushco threatens Iran leader and Iran leader twists Bushco in a knot with response. German Chancellor looks uneasy on stage with American Dunce Bushco… What WILL this idiot say or do next?

    6-10-08 SENATE OFFERED IMPEACHMENT ARTICLES IGNORED BY MAINSTREAM CONTROLLED BOUGHT & PAID FOR MEDIA
    http://www.c-span.org/pdf/bush_impeach.pdf
    Read it and Weep Bush Supporters, your man is as useless as 6% Real Estate Agents… George has cashed his check… Bye Bye.

    Mainstream media yawns as Kucinich offers impeachment Muriel Kane
    Published: Tuesday June 10, 2008

    On Monday evening, Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) took to the floor of the House of Representatives to read out 35 articles of impeachment against President George W. Bush in an almost five-hour marathon.

    Kucinich’s action made an immediate splash on the Internet. For example, at progressive website Democratic Underground, the historic performance quickly garnered an astonishing 56 separate threads on the most-recommended list.

    By noon on Tuesday, RAW STORY’s article on the subject was the top political story of the day at digg.com and the 10th most popular for the last year. A separate article at afterdowningstreet.org was also high in the ratings. Both sites, as well as Kucinich’s own webpage, were experiencing slowdowns due to the volume of traffic.

    However, the mainstream media were far more reticent in their coverage of Kucinich’s resolution — much as they were following the release last week of the Senate Intelligence Committee’s report on the administration’s misuse of prewar intelligence. For example, the Washington Post and USA Today had short items in their blog sections, while other major outlets merely ran wire service coverage from AP or Reuters.

    Kucinich supporter John Kusumi responded angrily at OpEdNews, writing, “The most important thing going happened on Monday night. An event that matters greatly to the course of history and to all Americans. Did you hear about it? Did ABC, CBS, and NBC break into normal programming with special coverage? Are there special alerts and bulletins on the cable news networks, where people can see them? No, no, and no!”

    NewsHounds was equally scathing, saying, “So, what if they impeached the president and nobody reported it? As of 3AM EDT the goddam liberal media is largely silent on Dennis Kucinich’s introduction of Articles of Impeachment on the floor of the House last night. Are they afraid of getting it ‘wrong’? Just report it, as does RawStory. … No matter what you think of it, this is news. News. Relevant, important, history-making news. It was live, on C-Span. Reality TV. Yet our most famous, trusted, 24/7/365 cable news media outlets are asleep at the wheel – or holding back. Neither is a good option.”

    More considered analysis of the actual political and historical significance of Kucinich’s move was mixed. At The Huffington Post, political historian Joseph A. Palermo, the author of Robert F. Kennedy And the Death of American Idealism, headlined a blog entry “Dennis Kucinich Makes History Again – Impeach Bush!”

    Palermo wrote, “Kucinich’s lengthy and detailed indictment of this wayward president is the most thorough and powerful case made to date. He outlined a litany of high crimes and misdemeanors and showed without a shadow of a doubt that George W. Bush deserves to be impeached and removed from office. Kucinich made clear that Bush has violated his oath of office and his Constitutional duty that the laws be ‘faithfully executed.’”

    In contrast, Salon.com’s political blogger, Alex Koppelman, wrote dismissively, “Some liberals in the blogosphere are complaining about the dearth of coverage of Kucinich’s resolution. I have to disagree — as I’ve pointed out before, when discussing complaints of liberal bias from the right, the media is in the business of covering news. This barely qualifies; if it deserves mention in the mainstream media at all, it certainly doesn’t deserve to be accorded the status of something big and breaking. I’m sorry, but the action of a lone congressman who’s widely considered something of a laughingstock, especially when it’s clear that action will never come to anything, just isn’t especially newsworthy.”

    Jim Trakas, Kucinich’s Republican opponent in next fall’s Congressional election also took the opportunity to blast his rival, complaining that “on the day his constituents first started paying $4 for a gallon of gasoline, Congressman Kucinich uses his time and efforts for more political games and not trying to solve the real problems in Washington.”

    America is Dead. Turd world is complimentary to America. Have a Nice Day.

    Welcome to George Bushco’s America
    Welcome to Hell.

  76. RealEstater Says:

    Renter4:
    The delta from higher gas prices really isn’t that significant. You got your stimulus check, didn’t you?

    If you research the SUV market a bit, not all are super-expensive. If you pick one that does not require premium fuel, and negotiate a nice discount, you come out ahead of those guys who drive a Honda *hit.

  77. RealEstater Says:

    Correction:

    The delta from higher gas prices

    should be
    The delta from lower gas mileage

  78. RealEstater Says:

    3rd Generation,

    It is not a secret that the American military is stretched too thin. If Bush did not attack Iraq, it can now deal with Iran effectively. Iran needs a good whip in the butt, but what is the only measure we can dish out now? Tough, empty talk. The Ayatollahs must be really scared!

  79. Renter4 Says:

    The delta from higher gas prices really isn’t that significant. You got your stimulus check, didn’t you?

    You offered me a stimulus check sometime in May, and at that time I pointed out that I don’t qualify for a stimulus check. I make as much as a Google engineer, which is frankly kind of disappointing to me; what is now left to aspire to?

    Situation A) “Shitty” care for 20k costs $50 to fill once a week.

    Situation B) Stylin’ SUV for 25k (knocked down from 35k!) costs $100 to fill once a week.

    So yes, for the same out-of-pocket as you formerly would have had to pay just to BUY the SUV, you can now buy it and feed it for two years. You’ve got the Manolos, AND the fancy sneakers. Congratulations. I’ll drive my shitty car, thanks.

  80. Honda Fit Driver Says:

    RealEstater must have failed math. I drive a Honda Fit 120 miles a day. I get at least 40 mpg. I filled up today at $4.57/gal. That means I’m spending $68.55 per week or about $300 per month.

    Now those fullsize Suburban and Expedition 4x4s are only getting 15 mpg. So if I drove one those gas guzzlers, I’d be burning 8 gallons a day or 40 gallons a week. Hmm, 40 x $4.57 = $182.80/week.

    That comes to around $750 per month (with some weekend driving thrown in).

    $750 – $300 = $450 per month for the “not expensive” SUV!

    Wow, that’s $5400 a year just to be able to be identified as the dumbest motor vehicle owner in the State of California!

    Man you are stupid.

  81. RealEstater Says:

    Renter4,

    You make as much as a Google engineer, and you cannot afford to fill up the gas? What’s up with that?

    In the real world, that SUV in your example should cost around $85 to fill compared to $50 for a regular car. $35 difference a week. Multiply by 52 weeks, you get $1820. You saved 10 grand on the car. Can you do the math?

  82. Honda Fit Driver Says:

    Oh, and George W. Bush is on his way to being one of the greatest Presidents in history. Seven years since the 9/11 attacks and not a single attack by Islamofascists on American soil.

    And lets talk about how dismal the war is going in Iraq. The massive U.S. casualties last month. What? There weren’t massive U.S. casualties last month?

    And the CIA is reporting that Al Qaeda has been essentially neutralized? Iraq is not falling apart at the seams?

    Damn, just when the liberals and Democrats wanted Americans to be killed and maimed in Iraq to bolster their hatred for Bush, all of this good news breaks out!

    And the environmentalists are smiling since Americans are using less gasoline today! I even heard some lower middle class American today say how grateful he is that he had to spend $82 to fill up his tank. His kids will be eating a lot of peanut butter and baloney but he’s saving the planet!

    Yessir, the democrats and environmentalists will be getting all of the votes this November when people show their appreciation for high energy costs!

    Obama’s slogan will be “Change is GOOD–Less is MORE!”

  83. RealEstater Says:

    Honda S-h-i-t Driver,

    Did I tell you to buy a Suburban? See my previous post for a more realistic example.

  84. RealEstater Says:

    Honda S-h-i-t Driver,

    Holy s-h-i-t, you really are what you drive. How many people killed so far? How many of mankind’s treasures destroyed? How much money spent so far?

    Let me give you a clue. If Bush didn’t fight this war, he could’ve bought every one of you priced out renters a BA home, paid for your Suburban and filled its gas tank until the car stops running, and funded every kind of school and healthcare you need.

  85. bob Says:

    3rd Generation,
    Kucinich is complete and total nut. I recall reading his site when he was running for the democratic ticket in 2004. I got about two paragraphs into his site before writing the guy off as an utter lunatic. The only halfway intelligent person who ran during the last election was Wesley Clark, who was pretty much ignored because he didn’t have hardly any coverage or much of a budget to campaign with. That’s why politics are so screwed up in this country because it has little to do with intelligence and everything to do with how much money you have.

    In regards to cars and gas, if you think that high gas prices will not ultimately affect the BA, think again. I’m on a number of blogs that have people from across the country. In many areas that are more heavily middle class, a lot of people from those places are having serious problems because of it. Many are farmers or heavy equipment operators. These people have no choice but to use large pieces of equipment and large trucks to haul it. They’re getting nailed by gas prices. So are many others who even though might drive smaller cars, can’t hardly afford to shove $100 a week into the tank.You have to remember that for many across the country, 40-50k is what is typically made salary-wise.That’s what my parents and most of their friends make. $5 gas is a killer.

    When people in Iowa can’t afford Ipods, Iphones, or bottles of wine, then that also means that they also can’t afford as many groceries or retail goods, which in turn means that stores that might have been thinking of upgrading their servers and computer equipment will put it off and so on. All things that are money makers for the BA. Its really arrogant to think that what goes on in the rest of the country will never make it here. It will. Just watch.

    In regards to cars themselves, I bought my Toyota 13 years ago back when gas in my area was 88 cents a gallon. $5 would just about fill it up and it would run for a week on that. I still have the same vehicle and it costs $40 to fill up now. We also have an old generation Prius that we inherited. It gets around 47MPG. But I’m a little wary of it because if the inverter, transaxle, traction battery, or basically anything else goes wrong, the cost of repair is insane- as in $5,000 for each of the mentioned items. The maintenance is meticulous.It took me two days to change all of the fluids ( Inverter, transaxle, engine oil, radiator coolant) If it were up to me, I’d probably go with a Fit as well because even though it gets around 10MPG less than the Prius, its mechanical simplicity would probably be better in the long term.

  86. SiO2 Says:

    Buckborden, the Honda Fit’s pretty cool. I’ve been eyeing one for my next car. 40 mpg, really? that’s pretty darn good. Not much less than a Prius, on a car that is way more fun, and can corner and stop with some ability.

    Regarding SUV… Stylish, yes, to some eyes. Comfort, not so much. Less room than equivalent-sized minivans or station wagons, the space is taken up by the long hood and the high ground clearance, necessary for the style. Plus poor handling and braking. every now and then I have to do a full stop because someone pulls in front of me w/o looking. in an SUV it could easily be an accident.

  87. RealEstater Says:

    >>We also have an old generation Prius that we inherited. It gets around 47MPG. But I’m a little wary of it because if the inverter, transaxle, traction battery, or basically anything else goes wrong, the cost of repair is insane- as in $5,000 for each of the mentioned items. The maintenance is meticulous.It took me two days to change all of the fluids

    This is why I keep saying, a Prius is providing false economy. You start by overpaying for the car, and just when your gas savings is starting to pay off (after 5 years or so), the car becomes a financial time bomb. Anything goes wrong with it, you basically need to replace the entire car. The battery pack will cost $10K to replace. All these people who are jumping in to catch this latest fad are non-car types who have no idea what they are getting into.

  88. bob Says:

    The batteries do not cost 10k to replace. Not anywhere close to that. The real cost on a old generation Prius is more like $3,000. The batteries have a low charge/discharge cycle that only charges them 40-60%, which enables them to last for at least 10 years. There have actually been very few of these with battery problems. NYC has fleets of them that have well over 300k on them and they’re still going fine. The New Prius battery is even cheaper and there are now aftermarket options as well.For the amount of complexity these cars have, they’re actually pretty reliable.This one is already 7 years old and it still drives and looks like new. But the big IF is if one of the major components goes bad, which is getting to be costly for just about any newer vehicle. I can easily fix my old car. I wouldn’t dare venture into most newer cars.

    I didn’t say I love the car but we did get it for free so at least for us, we didn’t have to pay the premium you suggest so it gave us instant gas savings right from the get-go. But even so, these cars only cost around 20-25k new, so it isn’t like they cost more than any other family sedan these days.

  89. Pralay Says:

    Oh, and George W. Bush is on his way to being one of the greatest Presidents in history. Seven years since the 9/11 attacks and not a single attack by Islamofascists on American soil.
    ——–

    Just one word: someone forgot to read August 2001 memo “Bin Laden determined to strike America”. Because our president was too busy to “clean up brushes”. Talk about incompetency!

    —–
    And lets talk about how dismal the war is going in Iraq. The massive U.S. casualties last month. What? There weren’t massive U.S. casualties last month?
    ——-

    Definition of “massive casualities”? US casualities in month of May is only lower than other months. And oh, I forgot about it: we don’t even count Iraqi casualties. It’s amazing to see how the argument come down to such a low level that just lower US casualities is a GREAT NEWS and considered as a sign of stability in Iraq!

  90. RealEstater Says:

    >>But even so, these cars only cost around 20-25k new, so it isn’t like they cost more than any other family sedan these days.

    The Prius is the equivalent of a Honda Civic. You can buy a Honda Civic for 15 grand. Believe me, there’s a huge premium when you buy the Prius. This is a high margin car for Toyota.

  91. bob Says:

    The Civic and current Prius are not in the same class. The Civic is a compact economy car.The Prius is actually a mid-sized family sedan akin to the Camry, Chevy Malibu, and Ford Taurus. All of those cars cost between 19-32k. So it fits squarely within that price range. Besides- didn’t you mention that you drive a BMW? I’d say that car has a HUGE premium considering the quality is terrible.

  92. RealEstater Says:

    Bob,

    Life is too short to be driving an econo car. My approach to car ownership is like this:
    - Always have at least one nice car in the family
    - Always pay cash for cars
    - Never go to dealer for maintenance
    - Always own a car for at least 10 years. This part we have in common, but the difference here is that I have an enjoyable car for 10 years, while you are just getting from point A to point B.

  93. madhaus, Socialist Says:

    I have driven Priuses when our other Toyotas have been in the shop. Sunnyvale Toyota has a fairly large lending fleet, and I’ve also driven the hybrid Highlander.

    The two downsides I see to the Prius is that the highway mileage is unimpressive (although the city mileage kicks major butt), and that it isn’t what you need if you end up hauling lots of kids around. It’s perfect for a 2-child family whose kids don’t have any friends.

    The Highlander drives nicely for a truck, has much less cargo capacity than the Sienna minivan, and gets more mileage in the city than on the freeway.

    Anyone who buys a BMW is clearly a poser who doesn’t understand value. And unlike a house in Palo Alto, cars depreciate really fast.

  94. RealEstater Says:

    >>The Civic and current Prius are not in the same class. The Civic is a compact economy car.The Prius is actually a mid-sized family sedan akin to the Camry, Chevy Malibu, and Ford Taurus.

    LOL. That’s what the marketing folks at Toyota want you to think.

    >>Besides- didn’t you mention that you drive a BMW? I’d say that car has a HUGE premium considering the quality is terrible.

    Actually I drive a Porsche, which is ranked #1 by JD Powers and Associates, but BMW is also highly recommended by Consumer Reports.

  95. RealEstater Says:

    >>Anyone who buys a BMW is clearly a poser who doesn’t understand value.

    Only a poser if you drive a 3 Series, or any entry level model of a premium brand, e.g. Mercedes C Class, Jaguar X-Type.

  96. Crossroads Says:

    what about the magnetic radiation dangers of hybrids?

  97. Pralay Says:

    In the real world, that SUV in your example should cost around $85 to fill compared to $50 for a regular car. $35 difference a week. Multiply by 52 weeks, you get $1820. You saved 10 grand on the car. Can you do the math?
    ———–

    If you compare vehicles from same maker (e.g BMW SUV and BMW sedan), most of the SUVs cost more. So even after 10 grand discount, probably you are paying same price as sedan. In addition, you are paying extra on gas.

  98. Pralay Says:

    The Prius is actually a mid-sized family sedan akin to the Camry, Chevy Malibu, and Ford Taurus.
    ———-

    It’s true if you consider inside space. But the trade off is safety. The safety cages of Camry and many other sedan are tube-like shaped (if you look at the car from front or back) which increases sturdiness. It also keeps passengers’ body little bit inside. Could be very helpful in side impact. On other other hand, Prius is not tube-like shape. It’s more of a box-like shape if you look at it from front and behind. That’s why Prius is rated very poorly in side collision test. If you buy Prius, you do need it with side airbags.

  99. Pralay Says:

    Similar example is Mazda3. It’s a small car but inside space is as big as any big size sedan. This one also is rated very poorly in side collision test.

  100. RealEstater Says:

    >>If you compare vehicles from same maker (e.g BMW SUV and BMW sedan), most of the SUVs cost more.

    Compare BMW X5 to 5 Series sedans. The price range overlaps. Same is true with X3 and 3 Series.

  101. Pralay Says:

    Compare BMW X5 to 5 Series sedans. The price range overlaps. Same is true with X3 and 3 Series.
    ————

    Which dealer is giving away BMW X5 for 10 grand less when its mileage is 15/21 MPG as compare to 5 Series’s 19/29 MPG? If that is the case, I assume that this dealer is giving away lots of 5 series sedan too – may be not 10 grand, but for 5 grand discount.

  102. WillowGlenner Says:

    Realestater, I don’t know what you mean the delta from higher gas prices isn’t significant. I know plenty of people paying $100 per week on gas -this is for a standard commute type vehicle and standard commute- when they used to pay under $30. If you have an SUV, double that. That is anywhere from $350-$600 per month additional expense for fuel that was not there before, or $5-$6K PER YEAR! I remember those tired old arguments armchair economists like Ben Stein used to make about how buying a prius costs 7K more than a non hybrid sedan and you will *never* recoup that in gas prices hahaha. All the people that bought Priuses and didn’t listen to this sage advice were the smart ones.

  103. madhaus Says:

    And don’t forget that unlike real estate, gas prices will always keep going up.

  104. mrbogue Says:

    god theres so much hate against BMW drivers here. okay i am here to confess. i’ve sinned against the burbed bible of frugality. though i’ve followed the 10 frugality commandments don’t keep lines of credit save save Ca$h, lived in a smaller yet very low-mortgage home, invested in stable quality dividend-yielding big cap stocks, walk to work, eat at home rarely out, clip coupons, etc. etc. I caved in to vice and bought a BMW. I still love that hunk of depreciating hunk of metal, and hug it every night. Its like a priest visiting that whore you know will give him a disease, but he keeps going to her because she *rocks* his prudent world!

  105. RealEstater Says:

    My only thing against BMWs is that there are so many of them running around the BA. It’s not really that special of a vehicle, unless it’s modified or customized in some way.

  106. RealEstater Says:

    >>I know plenty of people paying $100 per week on gas -this is for a standard commute type vehicle and standard commute- when they used to pay under $30.

    I’m kind of surprised by that. I have 2 SUVs, and I’ve never had to pay over $100 a week. Those guys must live on the East Bay, but then there’s Costco gas.

  107. bob Says:

    I guess for me and cars, I frankly have never cared about them that much as long as they are reliable and well-engineered.Its funny that people often compare the quality of BMWs to Toyotas. The fact that Toyotas cost a whole heck of a lot less than BMWS yet have better reliability ratings is proof enough to indicate how well made they are.

    In my family, we’ve had 2 camrys, an Avalon, and two Toyota trucks. All of them lastes at least 200,000 miles before trade and still ran fine. The Avalon- which is just as nice as any BMW for comfort- is still kicking it at 256,000 miles ( brother now owns it). My car has around 220,000 miles. They were and are absolutely flawless. None of the above mentioned vehicles were ever repaired because they never had problems.

    I guess for me, with RE’s comment of how many Bimmers and Mercedes there are on the roads in the BA, they’re about as common as a Ford Taurus back home. Drive a bimmer? who freakin’ cares. Everyone else drives one. That and just about every European car I’ve seen for the last 5 years are outright ugly or stupid looking. The new BMW’s have squinty looking tail lights. They actually loom like older Acuras rather than BMWs.

    But… to each his own. I’d just rather spend my money in a different way. If you buy a Bimmer, there’s nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Just like the guy with a Toyota made his/her choice when buying their car.

  108. california resident Says:

    The only difference between the Toyota and the BMW owner is that the Toyota owner keeps more of his money and the BMW guy doesn’t realize that everyone else is looking at him and saying, “Ghetto”.

    The same goes for all overpriced European luxury cars.

    Hey Realestater, didn’t you get the memo that cars aren’t status symbols anymore? In fact, houses aren’t status symbols.

    But this is the RBA where money means EVERYTHING. Can you say “shallow” or “stupid” or “You can’t take it with you”?

  109. WillowGlenner Says:

    I used to commute from Redwood shores (job in a startup) to Willow Glen and that was a tank of gas for 4 work days, if I wanted to go in for 5 days I would need to fill up midweek. Back then I had a BMW 525i and now I am one of those people with a low end BMW, heh. But anyway the 5 series was about $35 to fill up, then, 2002. Today, I have a small BMW that just last week cost $69 YES $69 to fill up. It is a smaller tank than my 5-series. They both use premium gas which is part of the problem, and $4.50/gallon. So if I had my redwood shores commute today, I would be paying $100 per week on gas- and I don’t live in the east bay, but many do.

  110. california resident Says:

    And like Bob said so well, MOST Americans aren’t like the rich folks in the RBA. Most American households don’t make $120,000/yr or even $65,000/yr.

    So with the high price of gas people are cutting back. You’re already hearing about how restaurant business is slowing down. These high energy prices are just sucking dollars out of the economy.

    But of course, none of this will affect the RBA where real estate and jobs and salaries are immune from such trivial matters!

  111. buckborden Says:

    SiO2 Says: Buckborden, the Honda Fit’s pretty cool. I’ve been eyeing one for my next car. 40 mpg, really? that’s pretty darn good. Not much less than a Prius, on a car that is way more fun, and can corner and stop with some ability.

    Thanks, SiO2. I’m quite secure and happy with my Fit, even if it is a “high school” car. Fit is a GREAT CAR. I fill up every 10 or 12 days, and it’s way under $40 (still). And, so far, with 2K miles on the car, I’m averaging 38.6 MPG. It cracks me up to read about these insecure fat cats on this post who are so obsessed with their egos that they MUST drive a gas hog (and I do believe it’s pecker envy in action). I said before, I’m quite secure. I don’t need the realestaters to tell me what it means to be MACHO. I economize to save money, and for no other reason than it makes good sense, which seems to be scarce these days, judging by some of the tripe posted here by idiots who think that money is GOD.

  112. buckborden Says:

    Realestater loser:
    If I am what I drive (the Fit guy), and if that is boring to you, that doesn’t concern me in the least. I know who I am, and you don’t matter. You represent nothing but greed and out of control ego, as do most of you rich pigs. Eventually, you will pay for your consumption and greed, and no amount of money is going to save you.

  113. Stepford Says:

    ” I don’t need the realestaters to tell me what it means to be MACHO. I economize to save money, and for no other reason than it makes good sense, which seems to be scarce these days, judging by some of the tripe posted here by idiots who think that money is GOD.”

    I would always choose a man who is secure enough to drive a car which makes sense for his situation rather then one who needs a car to boost his ego. I find a man who has enough sense to put money into his 401k more appealing then one who puts the money on his driveway.

  114. madhaus Says:

    Well said, Stepford. I often think of the letter to Dear Abby from the guy who said he would rather give his fiancee a house in her name than waste it on a diamond engagement ring. Houses appreciate, diamonds are overpriced. Very few women wrote in favor of him, but I think he had the right idea. I wouldn’t (and didn’t) marry someone who went for flash over substance, and I pity anyone hitched to that type, male or female. In that type of relationship, when the money runs out, so does the commitment — because it was conditional all along.

  115. Pralay Says:

    You represent nothing but greed and out of control ego, as do most of you rich pigs.
    ———-

    Karma or Carma? Some people need to learn from a person like Warren Buffet.

    Buffett is comfortable in Omaha in part because people leave him alone with the exception of a random fan or two. This billionaire doesn’t even have a chauffeur – he drives himself around in a 2006 Cadillac DTS, recently purchased after he auctioned off his old Lincoln Town Car, which was famous for its Thrifty license plate. And no, he does not want a yacht or many mansions. He just wants to be left alone to enjoy a good football game in his sweatsuit on a big screen television – with popcorn.

    After lots of timeouts while accessing burbed.com, it’s fun read last few posts.

  116. burbed Says:

    I installed WP-Super Cache and I think it made everything worse. :(

  117. RealEstater Says:

    I guess it all comes down to what kind of standard one holds for oneself, and what standard of living one wants. Life is full of questions like this:
    - Do you just go to college, or do you go to Stanford / UC Berkeley?
    - Do you just drive a car, or do you drive the Ultimate Driving Machine?
    - Do you just want to be a worker bee, or do you want to be in management?
    - Do you stay at Motel 6, or Hilton?
    - Do you just want to be married, or do you want to marry a trophy wife?

    There is no right answer, but I have a feeling Bob’s answers are on the low end of the spectrum.

  118. Stepford Says:

    Your questions are interesting RealEstater but even though you say there is no right answer you made a judgement call that Bob has low standards because they don’t match the standards you set for yourself. I would disagree with that assessment of Bob. I have developed my own set of standards for myself and others which don’t answer any of the above questions.

    I don’t care what degrees, jobs or cars my friends have. I can mix with any crowd, but I find myself drawn to people at a party who have interesting life stories, are intelligent and can discuss (whether they went to Stanford or not) any subject. I love to listen to people who are passionate about what they do whether it is as a “worker bee” or as a CEO. Their value is in their passion not in their job title. I have stayed at the Motel 6 and in luxury European suites, but never defined myself by those experiences.
    My worst night mare would be to have a friend like that analyst guy Burbed posted about who screwed people over so his kid could get into preschool. But I’m sure he had a great car so that makes his standards high….

  119. RealEstater Says:

    Stepford,

    I agree with your comments; however, I don’t think having high standards is mutually exclusive with being passionate about what you do.

  120. madhaus Says:

    One can have high standards (I certainly do) and be passionate about work and life. Where some of us differ is in choosing either high standards or materialism. Some on this board confuse the latter with the former.

  121. Pralay Says:

    - Do you just drive a car, or do you drive the Ultimate Driving Machine?
    ————-
    :) Someone just does not get it. For a kid, an ultimate driving machine could be a TransFormer Toy.

    In reality, car is just a machine for transportation that allows freedom and comfort. The rest is just feel-good about this machine.

  122. Stepford Says:

    I didn’t think I was saying being passionate for your job and having high standards are mutually exclusive. I was trying to say the opposite. RE defined his high standard by saying “Do you just want to be a worker bee, or do you want to be in management?” I was just trying to say that being a worker bee or in management is irrelevant. I would define a high standard for life as being lucky enough to find a job you are passionate about rather then one you hate that has a big “title”.

  123. california resident Says:

    Realestater you let other people define your own self worth. And by definition, that means that you have no self confidence and are not a person with character, integrity or strength.

    Everything mentioned on your list are superficial and arbitrary measures of the flotsam in life.

    1. College or Stanford/UC Berkeley: Of my two closest friends in life, one went to Berkeley and one went to Stanford. They both are MDs and one is an MD/PhD. They both went to the best med schools. I just went to grad school at UCLA. My boss went to the Univ of Oregon. Everyone where I work has at least a masters degree and, of course, all of the faculty are MDs or MD/PhDs.

    To get to the top in medical research does NOT require a degree from an Ivy League school or even a degree from Berkeley. The distribution of schools that people attended runs the full range of institutions–from the lowliest Jr College to Harvard.

    And BTW, my friends who went to Berkeley and Stanford, they aren’t any better than me (or anyone else).

    2. The “Ultimate Driving Machine”? You obviously don’t know anything about cars since BMWs are the butt of jokes since they are hardly the “Ultimate” anything.

    3. Worker bee or manangement? You must not work for a large corporation since where I come from, a “manager” is one step lower than the janitor. Oh, don’t misunderstand, I know plenty of professional people who are in “management”–but only a wannabee “management” type would make a statement like yours. My brother is in “management” at a large and prestigious defense contractor, but he’s happiest when he gets to hang out with his hotrod Ford and Chevy buddies (who aren’t managers).

    4. Any clown can stay at the Hilton–I used to work for one of the largest biotech companies in the world (you can easily figure who since there aren’t very many), and we always stayed at the Marriot, Hyatt Regency, or Hilton. BTW, do you know that the Hilton in Little Rock Arkansas looks just like a Motel 6?

    If I had to spend my own money, I wouldn’t pay $300/night for a hotel room in New York or D.C. that I could get for $125 in Omaha. If you want to, knock yourself out.

    5. This one is RICH! Marry a “trophy wife”?! Ah, I hate to inform you, but no one with an ounce of brains/money/class/character/etc would want to marry a “trophy wife”! What kind of fool are you?

    Now I know some very beautiful, educated and accomplished women–one comes to mind. She has both an MD and a PhD, comes from Spain and is currently working as a physician and medical researcher in Boston. She’d kick you in the balls if you called her a “trophy” anything.

    Trophy wives can only do ONE thing well and that’s put on makeup. They have no other abilities.

    So realestater, why don’t you dump the subscription to GQ and pick up a good book and try to become a more cultured and educated person. Then you might want to learn the Beethoven Symphonies and a Verdi or Puccini opera or two. And don’t forget that Swan Lake was both a ballet and a great piece of music by some Russian guy named Tchaikovsky.

    Man am I glad that we don’t have people like you around where I work.

  124. Renter4 Says:

    - Do you just want to be married, or do you want to marry a trophy wife?

    Hee hee.

  125. Renter4 Says:

    Burbed, come clean. He’s your sock puppet.

  126. Real Estater Says:

    Looks like we have a Bible thumping, holier-than-thou California resident here. Let’s see, where do I start…

    >>my friends who went to Berkeley and Stanford, they aren’t any better than me

    Given the competitive nature of college admissions these days, I’d say they are better, way better. That’s why top tech companies in the Bay Area only hire from these schools, and pay them $94K at age 24.

    >>You obviously don’t know anything about cars since BMWs are the butt of jokes since they are hardly the “Ultimate” anything.

    That was just an example. I already said BMW’s are quite common, but they are fine cars. The cool brands these days are Porsche, Audi, and Land Rover.

    >>You must not work for a large corporation since where I come from, a “manager” is one step lower than the janitor.

    I’m not talking about a trailer park manager in flyover country!

  127. Pralay Says:

    Bill Gates: college dropout
    Steve Jobs: college dropout
    Steve Wozniak: college dropout
    Larry Ellison: college dropout

    I have no doubt these guys have very low standard of living.

    Paris Hilton: can stay in hotel Hilton for free anytime she wants.
    I am sure nobody can match her standard of living. :)

  128. Real Estater Says:

    >>RE defined his high standard by saying “Do you just want to be a worker bee, or do you want to be in management?

    All kidding aside, you need to read my post again. Did I say anything about how I define high standards? I only gave you some food for thought, and asked you to find your own answers.

  129. WillowGlenner Says:

    Honda Fit owner, honestly, anybody that drives 120 miles per day in any vehicle qualifies for the “stupidest driver in CA” – I’d take a good look in the mirror if I were you- the only reasonable rationale for driving that kind of distance DAILY is if you are in some sort of corporate backed sales position where driving is a necessity, and then you should demand a better car if you are any good.

  130. Real Estater Says:

    Renter4 says:
    >>Burbed, come clean. He’s your sock puppet.

    Every once in a while, I have to say this again. I am not Burbed. I am just a participant. Since this is the internet, I can’t prove it to you, so all I can do is tell you sincerely that I’m not him, nor am I a realtor.

  131. Real Estater Says:

    WillowGlenner Says:
    >>Honda Fit owner, honestly, anybody that drives 120 miles per day in any vehicle qualifies for the “stupidest driver in CA”

    What do you expect from a Honda Fit Driver? He may be saving gas, but he’s not saving time, and time is money.

    He’s well equipped for the rat race. He’s running around all day, so that he’ll be able to afford the oil changes, the brake changes, and a new Honda Fit when this one wears out.

  132. Real Estater Says:

    WG,

    I just hope that, with the amount of driving he does, he doesn’t get hit by my SUV, because if that happens, his car will fit around my bumper.

  133. buckborden Says:

    WillowGlenner Says:
    >>Honda Fit owner, honestly, anybody that drives 120 miles per day in any vehicle qualifies for the “stupidest driver in CA”

    What do you expect from a Honda Fit Driver? He may be saving gas, but he’s not saving time, and time is money.

    Hmm. Let’s see. I drive a Honda Fit, I walk to work because it’s only two miles away, I fill up every 11 days on average because I hardly drive anymore, and yet I’m “the stupidest driver in CA”? Am I missing something here? Seems to me folks don’t have all the facts before they spout off about others’ so-called lack of intelligence… Oh, yea, I’m living quite nicely on my $40K a year salary with zero debt and tons of money in the bank. Guess that makes me stupid…

  134. california resident Says:

    Typical dumb Americans. Everything is defined by cash wealth. It’s about status and perceived status.

    In Germany a violinist or horn player in the Berlin Philharmonic has more status than just about anyone else, especially a person who just has a lot of money.

    In the RBA the real pathetic aspect of life here is that people really BELIEVE that a snot nosed Google kid with $5,000,000 worth of stock options is actually someone with status. Everything on this board is measured with one yardstick.

    Question, who is more important Ludwig van Beethoven or Bill Gates? Who will be remembered longer in history or who will be regarded as being more significant to the human race?

    Answer: It ain’t Bill Gates.

    Come on you idiots, you can do better than pick on a Honda Fit commuter, can’t you? I bet that you’re all so dumb that you had to look up Puccini–no it ain’t a mushroom that you get at the local slop house called a “fine dining” experience.

    What about Cezanne? Have any of you ever read a word of Charles Dickens? Do you realize how foolish, boorish and provincial you look?

    Okay, I’ll knock it off with the big words. You guys probably can’t even find a dictionary on the web.

  135. california resident Says:

    realestater:

    –”I just hope that, with the amount of driving he does, he doesn’t get hit by my SUV, because if that happens, his car will fit around my bumper”–

    You really do have a size problem, don’t you.

    Hint: All the desirable and clever women know that men driving SUVs have a size problem and need a security blanket.

  136. Crossroads Says:

    RE has both an suv and a porsche. Or is it the suv porsche that is actually made by vw?

  137. madhaus Says:

    All the desirable and clever women married to SUV-driving size-compensating hubbies are cheating on them with Toyota drivers.

    Calif resident, I’ve already posted a few times that I’m an amateur musician, I hope you aren’t lumping me in “everybody” on this board; you’ve assumed nobody values this stuff like you do. You’re wrong. This is a real estate board, so we don’t post about oil painting or ballet even if we enjoy it.

    I used to subscribe to SF Symphony until the kids came along and the drives up to SF every week just weren’t feasible. I’d do an opera here and there, and saw the whole Ring Cycle in 1990, I remember it was a budget-busting $100 a ticket. In the words of Bud Grace, did you know Goetterdaemmerung lasts six and half hours?

    But I’m not much on Puccini, when it comes to Opera Mozart and Wagner’s about all I can take. Although I actually dig Philip Glass’ operas, and I’m still kicking myself for missing Adams’ Nixon in China when it debuted.

    That said, I find it really amusing that you showed up posting a bunch of right-wing Neanderthal sloganeering and now you’re pumping yourself up as having more culture than us Real Bay Areans. How can I say this… Does. Not. Compute.

  138. madhaus Says:

    Crossroads, you forgot the BMW.

  139. Real Estater Says:

    Post #133:
    Let’s see. I drive a Honda Fit, I walk to work because it’s only two miles away, I fill up every 11 days on average because I hardly drive anymore

    Post #80:
    RealEstater must have failed math. I drive a Honda Fit 120 miles a day.

    Question:
    Does Honda Fit Driver suffer from memory loss, or just stupidity?

  140. DreamT Says:

    These posts are all fascinating but in the meantime I’ve failed to find a $5/gallon around CU/SC. Gas prices are way lower than that in this area, it seems.
    But still, to find out that a gas price thread elicits thoughts of trophy wifes, Cezanne’s paintings or the relative worth of Stanford’s degrees, shows that oil still has a wide impact on American psyche…

  141. DreamT Says:

    corrections.. “wives”, and price for the lowest gas grade (as I happen to drive the aforementioned Mazda 3)

  142. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    A Mazda 3? What kind of trophy wife you gonna fit in that thing?

  143. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    Wow, RE really is dumber than a box of rocks. Hasn’t noticed that post 80 and 133 were posted by two different Honda Fit drivers.

    And maybe trophy wives are dumber than a box of rocks, but they don’t marry guys that dumb unless they got their money the old-fashioned way. They inherited it.

  144. california resident Says:

    Post 139: realestater:

    Did you consider that two different people made those posts? Of course not, you can’t figure something so abstract out.

    madhaus: This is a real estate board?!?? It seems that at least half of the material has absolutely nothing to do with real estate and more to do with one upping the Jones.

    In fact a significant portion of this board and in fact the mindset of RBA residents seems to be fixated on WEALTH and STATUS.

    I’m simply pointing out that the vast majority of people on this board don’t know squat about status. It seems to be filled with nouveau riche snobs. You know the types, we see them everyday–kids who grew up spoiled and were good at math and went to Berkeley.

    What does this have to do with real estate? Well these same people and their parents worship at the alter of the RBA real estate temple. They deluded themselves into believing that Google is worth more than GM and that the prices will never come down because EVERYONE with any brains will want to live in the RBA.

    Take away the snob/status/ignorance/provincial idiot factor, and the prices will crumble. In fact the prices will crumble even if no one in the RBA changes their minds or realizes how ridiculous their personal values are.

    RE is about a mindset and the RBA residents have the most incredibly dumb attitude of any area in the country.

  145. DreamT Says:

    Maybe a trophy wife wouldn’t fit but a Cezanne would. And only RealEstater wouldn’t pick a Cezanne over a trophy wife. Anyway that’s the car the wife wanted in the first place (look on the expressways, it’s a woman’s car)

  146. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    Calif resident, don’t ascribe the status snobbery of one poster to the entire board. Most of the people who post here seem to be perfectly reasonable folks. In this thread we’re finding out why everyone chose the car they drive. Not a lot of status cars being touted either. You got a problem that we have a Mazda, a Toyota, and an old Ford Ranger? I mean, that’s not exactly posing, but go ahead and call us all uncultured blockheads while you admire your Cezannes. It’s okay, time to turn up the amp and reverb and annoy my neighbor when he steps out for a smoke. Which do you think is more effective more making a strong statement after midnight, Gilmour or Page?

    PS I’m more of a Monet fan. Love me them water lilies.

  147. DreamT Says:

    california resident: the lack of sophistication in your choice of insults and the total absence of sarcasm show that you are unqualified to post here, even as a wilful punching ball. Also only a person concerned (positively or negatively) with wealth and status would visit burbed.com. The others find time to attend to cultural activities rather than just talk about them.

  148. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    Do you know how many guitars, basses, amps, and keyboards I can fit into our Toyota Sienna? A lot. Same for high-power rockets. And it hasn’t ever taken ANYONE to a soccer game. Yet you think minivan and “soccer mom,” don’t you? mrs. madhaus drives the kids to school in the RX-8, too.

    Cars are about what you need to do and where you need to go. Does it have good tires? Can you afford to fill the tank? Will it run without needing to go to the shop every month? Can you drive it without hating yourself? Is their enough room to haul the people and stuff you need every week? Fortunately cars don’t come with school districts.

  149. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    DreamT, now that is NOT true. I visit burbed so I can make fun of other people’s houses. My biggest comeuppance will be that one day someone is going to put my place up here if I ever sell it.

  150. Pralay Says:

    RE is about a mindset and the RBA residents have the most incredibly dumb attitude of any area in the country.
    ——-

    I am curious to know the attitudes of “any area in the country” about bay area (or California for that matter).

  151. DreamT Says:

    madhaus – you’re at least negatively concerned by our local polarizer’s take on wealth and status. Same here: he often almost makes sense and yet everybody would hate to have someone like him as a friend. How’s that possible?
    BTW I didn’t want the mazda. I wanted the altima (because it’s more comfortable and no delay on acceleration) but was explained that it was an old man’s car (!). She wanted a beetle. We settled on a European-looking, japanese-made car. Mileage was never really a consideration. Our next car is a 6 or 8 seater, because of convenience, and this is yet another one that RealEstater got right. The crusaders trying to convince you to buy or not a specific car based on their own values are the 21st century’s holy Inquisition. They will also try to convince you that you are watching the wrong movies, listening to the wrong music and reading the wrong authors. It is the arrogance of the ignorance. Or as a French proverb aptly states: culture is like jam, the less you have of it, the more you try and spread it (this probably makes more sense if declaimed in French…)

  152. Pralay Says:

    cars are about what you need to do and where you need to go.
    ——

    Yes, this “need to do” is important component of vehicle usage. :)

  153. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    Pralay, for what she needed to do the Hummer would be a wise choice, followed by the Excursion. Something good and heavy.

    DreamT, I’d put quotey marks around that “almost makes sense” but fortunately I don’t have any friends like that.

    Never drove an Altima, I liked the looks and lines. I love the RX-8 but it is a huge gas-hog, probably right down there with some of the SUVs but way more fun to drive. Goes fast but the motor is quiet, some miss the snarl of a loud sports car, but the acceleration is smooth and fast.

    Calif resident:La culture, c’est comme la confiture, moins on en a, plus on l’étale. Suck on that, Cezanniste.

  154. Real Estater Says:

    Looks like this thread has degenerated into the “Angry Honda Fit Driver’s Forum”. I sure hope Mozart sounds good out of the stereo system during the 120 mile commute!

  155. Real Estater Says:

    >>Wow, RE really is dumber than a box of rocks. Hasn’t noticed that post 80 and 133 were posted by two different Honda Fit drivers.

    Madhaus,

    A quick question for you. Is Madhaus the same guy as Guitar Hero or not?

  156. Stepford Says:

    Agree with Madhaus. I also visit Burbed for a laugh at Bay Area houses. I already own a home and have no plans to buy investment properties although I think it could be a good investment if you know what you’re doing. My current goal is to save a down payment for a house at Lake Tahoe so I am interested in real estate, bubbles, and falling home prices. The home prices there are dropping as well, but still out of my range for something I’d actually like to vacation in and pass down to the great grandchildren!

  157. Pralay Says:

    Wow! This thread unmasked people with double/multiple identities:

    1. Al Gore and Dick Armey are same person.

    2. All the Honda Fit owners are actually same person.

    3. RealEstater is burbed’s sock puppet.

    And I am guessing DreamT is a vampire.

  158. WillowGlenner Says:

    Its not the Honda fit that this the problem (for me). The problem with post #80 is someone comes on and lambasts another person as a “stupid driver” while stating that they own a Honda fit and drive it 120 miles per day! IOW the problem is the MILES not the CAR and anybody who has a lifestyle like that needs to stop calling others stupid. Thats all I was saying. Honda fit is ok with me, I drive that “low end” BMW -simply because I wanted a smaller car than my former 525i.

  159. madhaus Says:

    I have no problem with the Honda Fit, but it’s not big enough for moving music gear around. We need at least one big vehicle, and the small car category is already taken with a gas hog. But it’s for fun and short commutes. Neither of us has ever commuted more than 10 miles to work. We gave up the space of a McMansion when we decided to spend the bucks to live closer to the jobs. For what we spent, we could have had 3000+ sf and a huge commute. No thanks. Those who decided to do it that way probably aren’t enjoying their gasoline bills these days, but at least the Honda Fit owners can lord it over those with the SUVs.

    For a great takedown on just how spectacularly bad the SUV is in so many ways, read this. Hint: it’s not just about the poor gas mileage. Also mr & mrs madhaus both agree that the most inconsiderate drivers in the school parking lot, without exception, are the SUV drivers. If someone is parked in a fire lane, or even worse parked in the drop off zone DURING drop-off, or shooting through the 5 mph zone at 30, yup, it’s always an SUV driver.

  160. Renter4 Says:

    Every once in a while, I have to say this again. I am not Burbed. I am just a participant. Since this is the internet, I can’t prove it to you, so all I can do is tell you sincerely that I’m not him, nor am I a realtor.

    Look, I’m sorry misjudge you and all, but that trophy wife comment rose to such high levels of comedy that I can’t believe it was sincere.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to take my Degas out for a 50-mile airing in the Sentra.

  161. Renter4 Says:

    I bet that you’re all so dumb that you had to look up Puccini–

    I know what Puccini is! But I don’t like those big graphic patterns on my clothes…

  162. Real Estater Says:

    California resident said,
    >>I’m simply pointing out that the vast majority of people on this board don’t know squat about status. It seems to be filled with nouveau riche snobs. You know the types, we see them everyday–kids who grew up spoiled and were good at math and went to Berkeley.

    This discussion seems to have touched off a sensitive nerve, and I’m detecting some sour grapes in you. There was never any intent to talk about status. How about let’s talk about some more tangible things in the context of real estate?

    1. When you’re in a bidding war, nobody cares what kind of symphony you go to or how many interesting friends you have. The reality of this world is that if you can’t come up with the dough, you won’t get the house.
    2. When you’re applying for a loan, the lender only cares how much you bring in each month, and what assets you have. Do you think a nice book collection and a Honda Fit in the garage is going to cut it?

  163. Real Estater Says:

    madhaus aka guitar hero Says:
    >>Do you know how many guitars, basses, amps, and keyboards I can fit into our Toyota Sienna? A lot.

    Growing up I had many guitar heros – Joe Satriani, Steve Vie, Randy Rhodes, Kirk Hammet, Yngwie Malmsteen Adrian Smith, etc. Somehow I can’t picture any of them showing up to a concert in a Toyota minivan.

  164. Prof. Bleen Says:

    Thanks for the link to that wonderful article, madhaus!

    According to Bradsher, internal industry market research concluded that S.U.V.s tend to be bought by people who are insecure, vain, self-centered, and self-absorbed, who are frequently nervous about their marriages, and who lack confidence in their driving skills.

    This finding is only slightly less surprising than the latest research demonstrating that the lunar samples brought back by the Apollo astronauts are devoid of green cheese. However, I didn’t notice anything about the high positive correlation between driving SUVs and driving whilst yapping on the phone. Certainly that has to figure into the safety issue.

  165. DreamT Says:

    Pralay – If I said that you’re right, Buffy would come and kick my butt. So let’s agree for my own sake that I am not one…

  166. DreamT Says:

    RE – You outdid yourself with the trophy wife comment, your best troll yet. Do you give lessons?
    BTW you probably meant Steve Vai, unless he has an evil brother.

  167. Pralay Says:

    shooting through the 5 mph zone at 30, yup, it’s always an SUV driver.
    ————-

    SUV driver is the new version of Volvo Driver.

  168. Real Estater Says:

    Damn, I actually spelled Yngwie right, but got Vai wrong?

  169. madhaus Says:

    BTW you probably meant Steve Vai, unless he has an evil brother.

    DreamT, I think he meant Steve Vie Rave On.

    SUV driver is the new version of Volvo Driver.

    Pralay: Naw, Volvo drivers are always too slow because they’re terrified somebody somewhere might drive within a mile of them. You mean BMW driver. Until the SUVs came along, they were the most likely to tailgate, to cut around traffic going 75 already, to swing from the passing lane to an exit in 100 feet, or to run red lights. The only reason I can’t accuse a BMW driver of parking in a fire lane is I’ve never seen one actually stop.

  170. austindweller Says:

    I think the answers to the “choice” questions posed by RE define what we call “values”. And to each his own. I guess we can pose several other questions which could determine the personality/thinking/value system of a particular individual. In fact, if we can come up with a set of n questions which result in “binary” answers, it could map a possible “2 to the power n” different personalities. And let me tell you that it would be quite surprising to find out how clubbing people together based on a single opinion is wrong. One could find several different shades of personalitites/philosophies if we could come up with those n questions. Even then, we cannot say we truely know a person since only infinitely many such questions and answers would determine that exactly.

    Based on the number of responses that got generated from RE’s questions, I would propose a new thread where sombody gives a first crack at coming up with these questions and rest of us add to them and finally answer them.

  171. DreamT Says:

    austindweller – thanks for showcasing why engineers do not land trophy wives. Especially the binary-minded. Truely :)

  172. austindweller Says:

    Keep your trophy wife for yourself. I don’t need one.

  173. Prof. Bleen Says:

    austindweller forgot to mention that there are exactly two kinds of people: those who believe that the infinite complexity of the human experience can be parameterized entirely in terms of binary categories, and those who don’t.

  174. austindweller Says:

    Well, I agree with Bleen. I already said it in the original post that you can’t know a person. Also I accept the limitation of binary parametrization. However, you have to agree it’s one of the easiest methods where you don’t expect essays from participants, but just their closest inclinations. A lot would depend on how one frames the questions too.

  175. madhaus Says:

    Prof Bleen, there are exactly 10 kinds of people; those who can count in binary, and those who cannot.

    austindweller, your idea is a good one but remember, one of the “participants” enjoys asking questions sidesteps answering them. However, I think I have an idea where to take the discussion.

    List the car that best sums up each city or neighborhood in Silicon Valley. Explain your reasoning.

    Sunnyvale: Toyotas. Well-built, dependable, but not very exciting. Some models are excellent, like the CUSD portion. Some are pretty much boxes on wheels, like North Sunnyvale and its trailer parks.

    Cupertino: Lexus, which as you know is just a hotted-up Toyota.

    Palo Alto: Range Rover. Overpriced for what it is, and lets everyone know how much it cost.

    East San Jose: Low Riding Chevy Malibu. For bonus points, trick up a 1964 Malibu and put aliens in your trunk.

  176. RealEstater Says:

    One more:

    Atherton/Hillsborough/Los Altos Hills/Woodside: Rolls Royce. Heavenly, over-the-top, the best that money can buy. Not practical for everyday people.

  177. madhaus Says:

    Atherton/Hillsborough/Los Altos Hills/Woodside: Rolls Royce. Over-the-top, obscenely expensive, utterly impractical as transportation, this is a motorcar with no purpose other than to announce how much money one can throw away. Requires full-time mechanic and chauffeur, just as equally oversized estate homes require full-time cleaning, operations and grounds staff. At least a Ferrari can run races.

  178. RealEstater Says:

    I’d be hesitant to use a term like “obscenely expensive”. Whether something is expensive or not is relative to your income and net worth. To a CEO/VC type, this type of home can be bought with their year-end bonus. To someone like Bob or Honda Fit guy, well, **create your own joke here**

  179. austindweller Says:

    RE,

    I have noticed your condescension for bob, madhouse, pralay *put anybody who frequents this board* time and agaian. Everytime it has to be for a different reason. Now I personally don’t get offended even if you condescend me or others for whatever reason that you find. Nevertheless, that does not justify your rude and mannerless posts and insulting overtones.

    Now obeserving this after your multiple posts, I would ask you to present the facts about what you really do for living. Are you yourself a CEO/VC ? If not do you atleast belong to Bob’s category ? How much do you make per annum ? What’s your net worth. I know that there is nothing to verify and we would have to take everything on your word. But I believe at oleast nce you would be honest and let us know what class you belong to. Now when/if you tell us refrain from your annoying comparisons and unsubstantiated claims. Just plain numbers.

  180. madhaus Says:

    Cambrian – Honda Civic. Runs fine but too crowded and far from the action.

    Santana Row – Honda Prius. Metrosexual and high-priced, yet not much room for the money.

    Evergreen – Pontiac Grand Am. Does the job but you can’t wait until you can get something with more style and (faster/closer).

    Gilroy – Oldsmobile. In case you haven’t noticed, the brand’s been discontinued and so has your equity.

  181. madhaus Says:

    Ack, I did say “Honda Prius” didn’t I? ** thunk **

  182. Lionel Says:

    “austindweller Says:
    June 15th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
    RE,

    I have noticed your condescension for bob, madhouse, pralay *put anybody who frequents this board* time and agaian. ”

    Austindweller, RE’s staggering social cluelessness fascinates me. I’m getting to think his character is not so much arrogant as perhaps lying somewhere on the autistic spectrum. I’ve noticed a lot of tech types who, in present day schools, would likely be diagnosed as such. I can’t tell you how often I’ve been working with a kiddo who’s struggling a bit socially, then met the dad and had a little light-bulb go on above my head. (It’s never the moms.)

  183. Renter4 Says:

    Atherton: Volvo. Am I doing the best for my family? Am I really spending enough to provide them with the best & most secure experience? The very, very, VERY best? How safe are they? Are they safe enough? Am I spending enough to make sure they’re safe enough? I’m talking safety here. No price is too high. Is a Volvo safe enough? Maybe? Well… okay, a Volvo for now.

  184. Renter4 Says:

    I never saw a Rolls Royce in Atherton. For Chrissakes, you don’t drive those things on the dirty roads. You want to get dust on the tires or something? Geez!

  185. mrbogue Says:

    >>> Growing up I had many guitar heros – Joe Satriani, Steve Vie, Randy Rhodes, Kirk Hammet, Yngwie Malmsteen Adrian Smith, etc. Somehow I can’t picture any of them showing up to a concert in a Toyota minivan.

    RE you’re HILARIOUS! I nominate this one as your funniest comment yet.

    *Bow* *Bow* *Bow*

  186. Pralay Says:

    I’m getting to think his character is not so much arrogant as perhaps lying somewhere on the autistic spectrum.
    ———-

    BUT, BUT, don’t forget he is always right – even if he is totally out of context. For example, here he proved Madhaus wrong – although his reply is totally out of context with the point Madhaus made earlier.

  187. Pralay Says:

    Volvo drivers are always too slow because they’re terrified somebody somewhere might drive within a mile of them.
    ———-

    Madhaus,
    Is it so? When I first came to America the first thing I heard from my colleague “there are lots of Volvo drivers in LA“. Then I found the definition in web (similar link provided in post #167).

    Of course, the definition of Volvo driver changed since 2004 Presidential Primary. Remember that “volvo driving, latte drinking” add?

  188. Pralay Says:

    Madhaus,
    I am amazed that you did not mention Mercedes anywhere. Who are those people parking their cars in Santa Row or Valley Fair parking lot and walking with Louis Vuitton (most likely fake one)?

  189. DreamT Says:

    Yes I’m extremely curious myself. For all their snobbery about San Jose (and the fact that during The Edge’s time, night club commute was the other way), I am convinced Palo Alto people go to Santana Row. SF people too maybe? RE’s Rolls Roycers? I mean, that Santana Row crowd doesn’t look anything like Santa Clara, Sunnyvale or San Jose.

  190. madhaus Says:

    Pralay, my posts were merely an opening. Please feel free to choose the town/neighborhood that best typifies a Mercedes of any model you choose. Don’t agree with my choice for Santa Row? Choose another vehicle. Remember, I am talking about the people who live there, not the people who shop there. Haven’t you noticed the apartments over the stores?

  191. madhaus Says:

    Austindweller, RE’s staggering social cluelessness fascinates me. I’m getting to think his character is not so much arrogant as perhaps lying somewhere on the autistic spectrum. I’ve noticed a lot of tech types who, in present day schools, would likely be diagnosed as such. I can’t tell you how often I’ve been working with a kiddo who’s struggling a bit socially, then met the dad and had a little light-bulb go on above my head. (It’s never the moms.)

    Lionel, RE is not a tech type despite claiming to be “a tech guy.” Tech types make spelling, grammar and punctuation errors but they are very detail-oriented and analytical. People like that don’t make errors of fact or logic often, and actually appreciate the opportunity to fix their mistakes. RE clearly doesn’t fit this description, he makes way too many bonehead mistakes, and then insists he’s right all along. More likely he’s a marketing/sales type who doesn’t understand own product/industry, or he’s in the real estate biz as we’ve assumed all along.

    The snobbery is just a game and has nothing to do with his real life. RE has never once said I live in ___ and here’s what it’s like. He doesn’t talk about comps in his neighborhood because that place doesn’t fit the go-getter successful persona he’s constructed. One’s own local real estate is something everyone here has discussed except for burbed which is why so many people have independently concluded RE is a burbed sockpuppet.

  192. Crossroads Says:

    i went to rooster t feathers with some guys at work in sunnyvale. i was very surprised by the audience. i did not know people like that lived in silicon valley. it was very uncomfortable.

    i would rather have been at santana row with the “i got a heloc so i could get dubs for my escalade” people.

  193. Crossroads Says:

    do people really own those places above santana row? it seems like they are always empty.

  194. madhaus Says:

    Crossroads, what is your point about the Rooster T Feathers audience? Since you don’t give details I may be leaping to the wrong conclusions. Are you saying Sunnyvale is Slummy-fail to you?

    Here’s a place for sale at Santana Row asking for more than my house is worth. There are 5 other units for sale on redfin.

  195. burbed Says:

    RealEstater != Burbed.

    Personally, my guess is that RealEstater is Vu from this thread:

    http://www.yelp.com/topic/fremont-bay-area-housing-prices#shCNdnP5NkQ1qp3Ogy2KBw

    But maybe not.

  196. Pralay Says:

    RE has never once said I live in ___ and here’s what it’s like. He doesn’t talk about comps in his neighborhood because that place doesn’t fit the go-getter successful persona he’s constructed.
    ———–

    Come on Madhaus. If he says something, you guys accuse him for bragging. If he does not, you guys complain. You cannot have both ways.

    He lives in management class neighborhood. He owns Porsche and two SUV. He uses one SUV for hitting small size cars (ref post #132). He makes smart economic decision all the time. What else do you want to know?

    Oh, yes, I forgot. He works 9-5 for the purpose of earning frequent flyer mileage and getting paystubs (he does not need salary, but he does need paystubs).

  197. Pralay Says:

    except for burbed which is why so many people have independently concluded RE is a burbed sockpuppet.
    ———–

    I doubt RealEstater is burbed’s sockpuppet. I had some email communications with burbed. Based on that I have no reason to believe it.

  198. burbed Says:

    (he does not need salary, but he does need paystubs).

    How Tony Soprano!

  199. Pralay Says:

    Personally, my guess is that RealEstater is Vu from this thread:
    ————

    I strongly doubt. I read only first two Vu’s posts. Note following lines in those two posts.

    NO ONE, NOT EVEN GOD, KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO HOME PRICES.

    In RealEstater’s world, everything is too certain – RBA home price will not drop, period. So, “NO ONE KNOWS” does not apply. HE KNOWS.

    i don’t think any rational mind will believe any hype about “RE only goes up”. that’s crap, i think most people know that.

    I don’t I need to explain anything from above line.

  200. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    RealEstater != Burbed.

    Personally, my guess is that RealEstater is Vu from this thread:

    burbed shouldn’t have sent me to that yelp discussion. Not only is it an epic quagmire, but b’s showing a very different persona over there than here. The upbeat civic booster is replaced with the jaded homedebtor who has had it with the status seekers.

    So far Vu seems a lot smarter than RE, and also claims to be in finance.

    Oh yeah, burbed, now I know which city you call home. So who’s the dude with the yellow house?

  201. Renter4 Says:

    Pralay, if you read those posts a bit more closely (and go down the thread a ways), the idea of it being the same poster is pretty convincing. Not to slander Vu or anything.

  202. RealEstater Says:

    >>Come on Madhaus. If he says something, you guys accuse him for bragging. If he does not, you guys complain. You cannot have both ways.

    It’s tough to please everybody, but I do appreciate Pralay for being fair about this.

    Honestly, you guys are making too much mystery and myth out of me. I can just tell you in straightforward manner: I am not Burbed, I am not a realtor, I’m also not Vu (don’t you have to be Vietnamese to be a Vu?). I am really just an average Silicon Valley tech guy. Does that sound like too much status?

    What I’m trying to show is that an average guy can make it in Silicon Valley. An average guy does not need to be priced out. It just takes some fundamental understanding of real estate, and a shift away from the ‘Poor Dad’ mindset that many people cling to.

  203. Renter4 Says:

    Not a word about the trophy wife?

  204. Pralay Says:

    So far Vu seems a lot smarter than RE,
    ———-

    And don’t forget Vu does play/quote numbers. Atleast it does not look like he is weak in math. :)

  205. Pralay Says:

    It’s tough to please everybody, but I do appreciate Pralay for being fair about this.
    ———–

    RealEstater,
    Post #196 was just sarcastic (not “fair” exactly). If you did not understand, I take it back.

  206. RealEstater Says:

    Pralay,

    Be care with the condescending comments. There’s a G-rated guy here with very sensitive feelings.

  207. burbed Says:

    You’ve never seen the dude hugging the house?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Time_Magazine_June_13_2005_Cover.jpg

    As for my location – did pick that because that’s where I live? Or did I pick that because that’s where Google is? :)

  208. RealEstater Says:

    Renter4,

    Let’s talk about that after you get into a pre-requisite RBA house.

  209. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    burbed, nope, I’m kind of immune to mass media, it’s why I have to get all my info from teh tubes. So not only isn’t that you, but your location is fake too? My, my. Although I am amused to see you using links I sent, on the yelp thread as you destroy everyone’s dreams and make the baby Jesus cry.

    Pralay, tell me what you really think. Smarter, same, or dumber than a bag of hammers?

    Renter4, Really excellent comments lately, especially on the Volvo (183). I’d propose marriage, what with same-sex being legal starting today, but I suspect our current families might take issue. Sigh. We’ll always have Degas.

  210. Renter4 Says:

    W00t, two heavily-qualified offers in one evening! I’m flying through windows!

  211. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    It would never work. Your Degas is taking up room I need for my bass amp.

  212. Pralay Says:

    if you read those posts a bit more closely (and go down the thread a ways), the idea of it being the same poster is pretty convincing.
    ——–

    I did go thru whole thread. I still strongly doubt. Vu knows numbers well (probably due to the fact that he is a finance guy) and can put them in context while making his argument. His rebuttals are to-the-point (although I disagree with his point). He does not BS or ask counter questions to avoid or get away from the original point. And don’t forget he said “RE only goes up” argument is crap too.

    And don’t forget Vu never claimed he has Porsche. :)

  213. Pralay Says:

    I’m flying through windows!
    ————-

    Damn! I am again “Priced Out Forever” while I was thinking about making a move. :(

  214. DreamT Says:

    Renter4, not making any advances but your Volvo post did elicit laughs here as well. As Kennedy would have said if he hadn’t gotten lost in Berlin: I am an Athertonian…

  215. burbed Says:

    Actually I withdraw my claim that I thought Vu was Real Estater. That’s actually really stupid now that I think about it.

    Vu claims to be in Real Estate.
    RealEstater claims to be in tech – and I believe him (believe it or not.)

  216. Pralay Says:

    tell me what you really think. Smarter, same, or dumber than a bag of hammers?
    ————-

    Ha ha! They cannot be same person unless Vu’s Porsche crashed into a 18 wheeler and after that he started acting weird.

  217. madhaus aka guitar hero Says:

    after reading that entire thread on yelp I now propose that burbed is actually bob. I swear, you’ve got to check this puppy out, burbed talks about moving to New York and then Seattle because it sucks here so much. I think all that boosterism here is too stressful. Maybe the real alter ego is california resident.

    We’re #1! We’re #1!

  218. RealEstater Says:

    Look at the deals in SUVs these days:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/105271/Car-Makers-Lavish-Incentives-on-SUV-and-Truck-Buyers

    If you’re in the market for a car, can you really afford not to buy a SUV?

  219. SurfDude Says:

    Internet was sponsered research by U.S. Department of Defense. The money was given to a handful of companies and research universities. WWW was invented by Tim Berners Lee at CERN (e.g. Europe).

    Over 50% of BMW sales are leased by low net-worth posers.
    A huge percentage of our country is posing and living above its means – now the proverbial chickens have come to roost. This will go for quite a while – laugh at your own peril…


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