What does $1,248,000 buy in Sunnyvale these days?
1232 Mandarin Dr, Sunnyvale, CA 94087 Sunnyvale MLS# 80821888 - Property Details
$1,248,000
* Status: Active
* Bedroom: 4
* Bathroom: 3
* Year Built: 1960
* Lot Size: 8848
* Square Footage: 2284
* List Date: 7/16/2008
* Garage Spaces: 2
* MLS#: 80821888
BEAUTIFULLY REMODELED HOME IN CHERRY CHASE*OPEN S&S*NEW 50 YEAR ROOF*LARGE INSIDE LAUNDRY ROOM*LOVELY YARDS*EXTRA WIDE SIDEYARD FOR ADDITIONAL PARKING/STORAGE*IMMACULATE HOME READY FOR YOUR BUYER*SLAB GRANITE ENTRYWAY AND FIREPLACE*GLEAMING HARDWOOD FLOORS*HUGE KITCHEN WITH BLACK GALAXY GRANITE COUNTERS AND RICH CHERRYWOOD CABINETRY* WILL NOT LAST AT THIS PRICE*
Burbed reader madhaus sent this to me a few days ago, but I forgot to post it.
This house is definitely quite remodeled - but is it really worth $1,248,000? Of course it is! 4 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms? Extra wide side yard for that all so important additional parking (hello entrepreneurs!) and granite galore?
“WILL NOT LAST AT THIS PRICE” is the understatement of the year. How much over asking will this sell for?
July 30th, 2008 at 7:59 am
Do you get cupertino schools with it? If so, I think it will go for over asking. Plus I think the area that this house is located you don’t get much inventory coming to market so there is a scarcity factor.
July 30th, 2008 at 8:26 am
What is with these two-toned houses? Suddenly very chic.
July 30th, 2008 at 8:32 am
$1,228,000
lot = 8848 sq ft
house = 2284 sq ft
MLS# 80821888
I am impressed. The sellers must have been waiting for a while to get such a lucky MLS number! And it’s on Mandarin Dr! There are a couple of 4’s though, that’s bad.
Someone buys it for $1,288,888?
July 30th, 2008 at 8:33 am
Yes. Schools, schools, schools. Boy, when I move out of here, I don’t EVER want to hear about schools again, and will make a very concerted attempt to move to an area as far from schools as possible.
Anyhow, didn’t we have an article yesterday mentioning the presence of radon in Granite? Wouldn’t that make this house a health hazard-especially for the kiddies? One other thing: How come almost all of these ads for million dollar homes appear to be written by people with 5th grade educations? Do you really have to make the entire ad ALL CAPS?
July 30th, 2008 at 8:45 am
Duh. All you need to be a real estate agent is a 5th grade education and a lack of morals.
July 30th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Wait, does this mean Sunnyvale are back in the “RBA”?
In all seriousness, the fact that this by all acounts ordinary/pedestrian looking house could fetch over a million speaks volumes about the quality of life in general in the Bay Area (or lack thereof). This house would be the ugliest on the block in most decent areas of the country.
July 30th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Is this how devalued our money has become? Is this what constitutes “value” for one’s (borrowed) future? Man, I’d sure want to hock my way into oblivion for this place! What a deal! Instant stress for life! For something I’ll NEVER OWN! The madness continues.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:04 am
This house looks like the kinds of homes they built in Knoxville TN for section 8 areas. I had a friend in college who bought one for $10,000 simply because it was cheaper than renting for two years. Of course someone’s gone in and added lots of granite, drab olive green paint, and arts and crafts style windows on the garage. But as Mr. Hoover said back in the day, “you can’t polish a turd”, and this is indeed a turd.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Looks like a nice house to me, on a good size lot. Since I am in WG, where houses have “charm” I have learned to appreciate these TJ martin ranchers just in terms of livability. In a rancher if you have 2200 sq ft of living space, it FEELS like 2200 sq ft of living space. In my house (this is the house I live in), which is in WG- it has the charm factor with arched doorways etc- but the 1800 sq ft feel chopped up. Some of this you can’t do anything about, because these are all add ons where the front of the house is original and the back is the addon- but even so, looking at just the original structure, the plans weren’t as livable. Most 1940s era homes and earlier have fireplaces here with nice (really nice) brickwork, but the structure is at the end of the original living room, in other words a corner of the house- it should have been more in the middle of the structure, particularly since FPs were used for heat more often years ago. etc.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:29 am
Close to Fremont & Hwy 85 and Los Altos, walking distance to the Stratford private K-5, and your property backs out to a house on the Troy Ct cul-de-sac instead of the strip mall on Mary. They’re Sunnyvale schools but great ones - Cherry Chase, Sunnyvale Middle, and then you get into Cupertino at Homestead High. This is a steal.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:34 am
looks like the kinds of homes they built in Knoxville TN for section 8 areas.
Lay off the crack pipe, bob. These from knoxville look of worse quality and it is obvious these are not intended for low income housing. Yeah they are cheap, but thats only because there is more land than jobs in Knoxville.
http://tours.tourfactory.com/tours/tour.asp?t=420355&r=http://www.google.com&slink=-2
http://realestate.knoxnews.com/sales/Listing.asp?lid=34-561445&affiliate=blocker&omnisource=GB:KNS:RE:Sales
July 30th, 2008 at 9:49 am
I agree with WG. This is not a bad house, and if you could afford it I’m sure that you’d be happy with it. Buyers who are looking for a home rather than an investment vehicle would do fine here; get fixed-rate loans and don’t bet your life on 10% YOY appreciation, but that goes for any home purchase…
July 30th, 2008 at 10:00 am
Burbed,
The Spam protection is preventing posting to older threads.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:03 am
The Spam protection hasn’t changed. It’s just as buggy as usual.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Once more, a whole lot of unqualified garbly-gook from WG. Since I happen to be from Knoxville, Let me fill you in so perhaps in the future, you will be able to make more accurate statements.
Knoxville has a surprisingly large amount of business-many that you’ve heard of- in a small Southern city. It is home to a major operation of Scripps Networks and a number of major cable networks such as HGTV, DIY, and Fine Living. Production is also produced for the Food Network. It is also home to the Jewelery Network, and the original founding of Shop at Home.Scripps is building their largest facility there as we speak to be completed in 2010.
Other large businesses include ORNL- Oak Ridge National Labs with a focus on power, biotechnology, defense, and robotics. TVA- the Tennessee Valley Authority- is one of the largest power producers in the country. It also has a large campus with over 30,000 students.
More recently, it was named #13 in its overall ranking of best cities to reside for both the US and Canada. Pretty impressive given that this pretty much beats every single major city in the US. It was also named #5 overall as the best city in which to raise a family- which again beats every single major city in the US.
Your only claim is that well- there’s more land. But less jobs is an understatement. That there is more land means that you can also get more house, more land, and better quality for much less. Am I missing something here? I thought living was about enjoying a higher standard.I assume that you meant to indicate that since there is less pressure to make homes go up in value as much then it wouldn’t present such an investment opportunity. But people in Knoxville and other lower cost areas are probably busier living decent lives without having to invest in houses since their incomes actually affords them what people here can’t without playing silly games.So who cares? You’d still be coming out ahead there- investment houses or not.
Since I’ve left Knoxville, it has undergone a major redevelopment and revitalization. Its actually a very nice, clean, comfortable city.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:15 am
I grew up in a similar home in West San Jose. Nothing wrong with it, but if I was going to shell out $1.3M, I could do a lot better than this. The Cupertino schools have altered the value proposition dramatically, but for the same money you could get a better house and send your children to private school.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Who are the morons that are buying up these overpriced homes?? Good schools or not, $1.2M for a roof over your head is absurd. The sad thing is that people really think they are getting a good deal.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Burbed,
May I suggest just turning it off? How many Spams is it blocking compared to legitimate posts?
July 30th, 2008 at 10:37 am
RE, your posts are filled with unqualified BS.
By preventing you from posting, it is doing its job properly.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Cupertino schools have been a magnet for newcomers since the seventies, when we moved from Portland, Maine to Cupertino as part of the Fairchild migration. Other than the schools and great RBA weather, Cupertino offers nothing special in terms of lifestyle. Lots of struggling strip malls surrounding the dead zone that used to be Vallco Fashion Park.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Also, WG, sorry to break it to you but “charm” is real estate speak for “turd,” which is exactly what this house is.
Step back for a second and realize that since you live in willow glen you are also biased. Unless you’re living on Nevada, you’re probably in a “charmer.” It’s likely your home was built in the 1920-1940s and is less than 2,500 sqft. It’s also probably worth somewhere around 3/4 of a mil. That’s a lot of money to live in a tiny home where your kids (if you have any) can go to a school that is now filled with mostly Mexicans.
DD, who would be happy spending 1.2 mil on a 2.2k sqft home? I’ll tell you: Only an idiot…
July 30th, 2008 at 10:44 am
LOL - But all kidding aside, this place would suck and probably die without RE posting. Disagreement and the exchange or different points of view is the entire point of blogs.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Once more, a whole lot of unqualified garbly-gook from WG.
- bob
(need I say more?)
July 30th, 2008 at 10:55 am
anon: Ah, no. This isn’t a turd. There are plenty of turds on this blog and this is not one of them.
You’ve heard the story of the fox and the grapes, right? You understand the lesson, right?
July 30th, 2008 at 10:58 am
anon, Maybe I did not make myself clear.
Ranchers, imho do not have “charm”, older houses do, which are in the older towns- not just WG, but the old parts of Sunnyvale, Palo Alto, redwood city etc.
I don’t think charm=turd, because charming houses constantly obtain premiums over the same square footage rancher. But I agree in terms of livability, charming houses are turds compared to ranchers. Ranchers really use every inch of square footage.
July 30th, 2008 at 11:02 am
The sour grapes story? Of course I have.
To start, let me ask you: what would make you think that this home is unattainable for me?
It is a turd just like many of the other homes listed on this blog. It is simply less smelly.
It is a question of magnitude. Say this house were priced at 2.5 mil. Would it then become a turd? How about 5? 10?
If your answer is: no - it never becomes a turd, you’re simply buying into all the bay area BS.
July 30th, 2008 at 11:38 am
anon, I’m not sure where you get your concept of Willow Glen as mostly 20’s to 40’s bungalows. I’d say more of Willow Glen is 50’s and 60’s ranches with a few Eichlers thrown in. Less than 2,500 SF? Sure, but most ranches are less than 2,500 SF.
WG, the Mercury News had an article on July 22nd regarding the pace of both actual foreclosures and the notices of default which are a precursor to foreclosures.
Santa Clara County posted 1,560 foreclosures in the second quarter, up 512 percent from 255 in the second quarter of 2007, according to DataQuick Information Systems. That’s the highest in any quarter since 1988, and mirrors a statewide trend.
Mortgage lenders also sent 3,751 “notices of default” to homeowners in the county in the April-to-June period, according to DataQuick. That’s up 22 percent from 3,074 in the first quarter, and up a whopping 194 percent from 1,275 in the same period last year.
It would be inaccurate to state that foreclosures are levelling off or declining and it would appear to be wishful thinking to state that foreclosures will level off or decline in the near future. As an investor, you need to rely on hard data rather than falling for talking points.
Yahoo! reported the average mortgage payment in San Jose is $4,322 compared to an average rent payment of $1,612. That represents a steep premium on home ownership.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
That the average mortgage payment in SJ is $4,322 speaks volumes about the unsustainability of current housing prices because the “average” SJ family doesn’t even take home that much. I am guessing $4,300 would equate to a salary of about 75k, which is more than the average household income. When the ave mortgate payment exceeds the average household income, things are seriously out of whack and in need of a serious adjustment.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Where do I get my concept? Well, let’s see, I’ve spent a lot of time there and I have something called independent reasoning ability. I don’t see anything on the internet that gives the average home age in “Willow Glen”, but how about:
http://www.willowglentimes.com/040207/restate_col.htm
“Willow Glen is one of the oldest areas of San Jose.”
Well that doesn’t mean much - its pretty vague. Are you not satisfied with the fact that the willow glen times itself says its older than most parts of San Jose? Me neither. Let’s take a random sampling from Zillow:
1508 Newport Avenue, San Jose, CA
Public Facts:
* Single family
* 5 beds
* 3.5 bath
* 4,903 sqft
* Lot 46,609 sqft
* Built in 1919
1459 Iris Court, San Jose, CA
Public Facts:
* Single family
* 2 beds
* 2.0 bath
* 1,295 sqft
* Lot 4,650 sqft
* Built in 1925
1118 Nevada Avenue, San Jose, CA
Public Facts:
* Single family
* 5 beds
* 4.0 bath
* 4,047 sqft
* Lot 24,206 sqft
* Built in 1900
1172 Nevada Avenue, San Jose, CA
Public Facts:
* Single family
* 3 beds
* 2.0 bath
* 1,344 sqft
* Lot 11,336 sqft
* Built in 1931
1147 Willow Glen Way, San Jose, CA
Public Facts:
* Single family
* 2 beds
* 1.0 bath
* 1,062 sqft
* Lot 3,900 sqft
* Built in 1938
1138 Telfer Avenue, San Jose, CA
Public Facts:
* Single family
* 2 beds
* 1.0 bath
* 1,104 sqft
* Lot 5,070 sqft
* Built in 1936
1121 Willow Glen Way, San Jose, CA
Public Facts:
* Single family
* 2 beds
* 1.0 bath
* 1,267 sqft
* Lot 4,791 sqft
* Built in 1939
Please try to find me a home that was built in the 60s. Of course there are some…There are even a couple that went up in the 2000’s. Certainly, I’m not going to try to find one - which is what I’d have to do if I wanted to locate one.
Would you care to elaborate as to where you have developed this “concept” that Willow Glen consists mostly of 50s and 60s homes?
I stand by my assertion that ‘charmer’ means ‘turd.’ The only thing charmed about anyone involved is the buyer who is under the spell of instant equity and guaranteed appreciation.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Well, I thought it was a good deal for a minute, but.. http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Francisco/3035-25th-Ave-94132/home/1640335 - Two blocks to San Francisco’s Lowell High… I think that is a bit more prestigious than, well, pretty much anywhere in Sunnyvale.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
anon: “turd” implies that it’s a poor-quality house, one that needs major repair work or is unlivably small, or has some negative quality other than price. Lamborghini automobiles are expensive; would you describe them as “turds”?
July 30th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
That the average mortgage payment in SJ is $4,322 speaks volumes about the unsustainability of current housing prices because the “average” SJ family doesn’t even take home that much. I am guessing $4,300 would equate to a salary of about 75k, which is more than the average household income. When the ave mortgate payment exceeds the average household income, things are seriously out of whack and in need of a serious adjustment.
The average mortgage payment, if it is at say 6%, will result in interest payments of $1.80 on top of each dollar of principal by the time the house is paid off. So the house has to appreciate 280% in 30 years just to break even on the deal. Of course, the interest is tax deductible, but you still gotta pay it. And so the rich, who can just write a fat check and pay no interest at all, get richer and the poor get poorer. The rest of us will have to learn to save again or be doomed to renting forever.
July 30th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
DD, I see. Well then, we’re arguing definitions. This house looks quite nice for a blue collar worker. To me, its a turd.
Your analogy to a Lamborghini is without merit. A Lamborghini is a high end car and commands a corresponding high end price.
This is a low end house and yet seeks (and probably obtains) a high end price.
That is the reason I view it is a turd.
July 30th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
For you to say that someone would be happy with paying 1.25 million dollars for a depreciating asset shows that people have not learned their lesson. Couple that with the fact that you’re lining some uneducated real estate broker’s pocket with around $75,000/2 for doing nothing and I can’t possibly relate. The numbers have been discussed to death, but suffice it to say that only someone to which the term ‘ignorance is bliss’ applies would be happy with this home.
With the easy credit of the past years, exorbitant dollar values do not phase people anymore. These numbers should floor people and they don’t. This only contributes to reckless spending. 65k on an Escalade? 180k on a Porsche? I deserve it — and, its not that much! People spend 10 times that on a home!
Go ahead and buy this turd, sir. If you don’t, some idiot will.
July 30th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
R (#28) - “That the average mortgage payment in SJ (…) because the “average” SJ family doesn’t even take home that much.”
R, the above is faulty logic. First of all, the “average SJ family” may have equity, savings, inheritance, etc. and therefore may be comfortable paying at a loss for a few years, as many new homeowners often do. There needs not be a match between immediate take-home income and mortgage payment amount.
Second, what economic law dictates that the “average SJ family” should access to home ownership? Many people are content to rent (unlike many renters posting here) for various reasons, and so conversely many people own multiple houses to rent out. Further on that road, if the house is rented out while the owner himself rents (I know people who do that), then house rent + take-home income can cover apartment rent + mortgage.
Also this looks like an amount for payments on new mortgages. Many people have owned their house for a while so their outstanding payment is much less that reported here.
So in conclusion, NO I don’t think this speaks volumes. I think you’re oversimplifying and jumping to conclusions.
July 30th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
anon - I have difficulty with the concept of calling something a turd based on how it’s priced, or based on personal standards. Give it for free, it’s still a turd, isn’t it? Learn to appreciate turd, it’s still one isn’t it? By twisting its meaning, you only invite unwarranted controversy.
In any case this house looks only slightly overpriced to me (maybe $50k to $80k) which means it’ll probably sell easily in the current local market.
July 30th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Would you care to elaborate as to where you have developed this “concept” that Willow Glen consists mostly of 50s and 60s homes?
Folks can go to Zillow, enter 95125, and see for themselves.
1990 Cabana Dr. - 1952
1671 Campbell Ave. - 1953
1514 Phantom Ave. - 1955
1674 Saint Anthony Dr. - 1958
1990 Cronwell Dr. - 1960
The GE plant on the corner of Monterey Road and Curtner Avenue was one of the driving forces behind the growth of Willow Glen. The site recently reopened as a shopping center.
July 30th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
DreamT, your evaluation that it is not overpriced is based on comps - which are overpriced also. Look at this thing from an objective point of view. Perhaps it is hasty to simply call it a turd. If the above lamborghini analogy is modified a bit better, it could be a little more accurate.
How about likening the purchase of this property to the purchase of a Ford Taurus for $250,000 because it is from a manufacturing plant that is somehow ’special’ and only produces a limited number of vehicles? It’s still a crappy car, but it functions just fine as transportation.
Also, with respect to your previous post, I don’t see how that’s faulty logic.
To start, everyone can’t have passive income besides their work. Granted, some do, but this is the exception, not the rule. A market built by assuming everyone falls within the exception is not sustainable.
Don’t you think it’s a bit odd that it makes more sense to buy a home to rent out than it does to purchase a home to live in?
Again, if the average SJ family can’t afford a home, that means that other people are buying the homes that the majority of people live in. That’s fine for the people who are buying the homes, but it is not good for the neighborhood.
July 30th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Two blocks to San Francisco’s Lowell High…
But doesn’t SF us a lottery system? You could live 2 minutes away, but end up going to a school that’s on the ohter side of the city.
July 30th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Lowell is entry by examination, actually. I would hope if you’re raking in the millions needed to afford something like this, you can afford the best private schools to get your kid ready for Lowell, yes?
July 30th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
anon - Thanks for qualifying your statements. My definition of overpriced is simple: priced too high to attract a buyer. In that sense, you only know that a house is overpriced in hindsight. I also think pricing is art more than science, because most of the data to price right is just not available (i.e. available data is 30 days old). So I’ll always be at odds with people who say a house is overpriced without having deeply involved in the real estate market the previous 20 days, without even having visited the house at all, and without having a clue about the neighborhood.
Re. your next point: not everyone needs to be able to afford a house for the local real estate market to be sustainable. So the assumption you mention is off mark.
Regarding the situation I mentioned, in one case this was after a divorce, in another after a death.
Re. your last point, I agree with you wholeheartedly of course, the more local homeowners the better for the neighborhood. But that’s besides the point. The actual point was that things are “out of whack and in need of a serious adjustment.” I took this to mean the local real estate market was sustainable under these premices, and I disagree.
July 30th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
correction: “I took this to mean the local real estate market was unsustainable under these premices, and I disagree.”
July 30th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Hey everyone, I’m back from NJ! That means no more stupid every morning.
This house is NOT NOT NOT in Cupertino School District, but is Cherry Chase Elementary, which is the best in Sunnyvale district. The middle school (Sunnyvale Middle) is the worst associated with the house (yet it is the best middle in the district, of course there are only 2 of them). Cherry Chase actually outscores the 3 CUSD elementaries in Sunnyvale.
I’ve heard this neighborhood called the “cocktail fruits” subdivision, take a look at the other street names.
Whoa, here’s some big news, everybody! Record Low Annual Declines Recorded in May 2008 for the S&P/Case-Shiller Composite Home Price Indices.
An index of 162.70 (January 2000 prices set at 100) is the equivalent of mid-March. Mid-March of 2004.
Data is available here.
July 30th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Thanks for your examples, Frank.
I’m glad you disregarded the fact that Willow Glen’s own newspaper asserts that WG contains some of the oldest homes in San Jose. (1950 or 1960 is old for San Jose?).
Also, if you’re talking 95125 as the boundary for ‘willow glen,’ then you have found 5 homes that fall within your criteria. Good job.
Now, why don’t you take a second and go look at: http://maps.huge.info/zip.htm and see where 95125 is in relation to the homes that you linked. For example, your Cronwell address is a hair inside 95125 instead of 95008. It is on the corner of N. Leigh and Cronwell. 100 feet to the west and it would be 95008.
How about 1990 Cabana? Oh, look its at the corner of Cabana and S. Leigh. 100ft from 95008 also.
All of the homes you linked are in the same area on the north western skirt of the 95125 zip code.
The homes I linked are in the heart of willow glen and I stand by my assertion that the majority of homes in WG are made in the above specified time period.
FJ, are you familiar with what makes Willow Glen Willow Glen? At the risk of sounding cliche, it ain’t the zip code. I’ll drop this before it becomes a discussion of the “Real Willow Glen,” but suffice it to say that you’re pushing it.
Oh, hey look what I found as I did one more search before I submit this reply!: http://www.willowglen.com/
Top of the page:
“Like a small town, with its own main street, Lincoln Avenue, Willow Glen is lush with tree-lined streets, punctuated with architecturally distinctive single family homes, many of them Victorian and Spanish-style built in the 1920s and 1930s.“
July 30th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Any over/unders on what this house will sell for?
July 30th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
to anon and Frank,
Please try to find me a home that was built in the 60s. Of course there are some…
There are a ton of them, but not in the “prime” area of WG which is what Anon is quoting. Streets like Newport and WG way are the old part. Thats where I live. My house was built in 1947… tons of bungalows around here.
Outside of this “prime” area though, which I would say starts a few streets past Hicks towards Meridian, and past Meridian, there are tons of ranchers built by TJ Martin builder. They are all the same, on streets like Nord. On a sq ft basis its cheaper to buy in the TJ Martin areas, and cheaper to rent too. You are not “walking distance from town” in that area. Its more like a burb off san jose, but the tradeoff is, you get a livable rancher for a good price. Maybe these areas are where Frank can rent in WG for $2K for a 3br house (no, not even there come to think of it). One of the biggest issues with WG is that one zipcode 95125 covers the entire area.
July 30th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
R,
That the average mortgage payment in SJ is $4,322 speaks volumes about the unsustainability of current housing prices
take a look on CL at where rentals are priced. After spending time pricing rentals, I now thing mortgages are a bargain.
July 30th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
So I’ll always be at odds with people who say a house is overpriced without having deeply involved in the real estate market the previous 20 days, without even having visited the house at all, and without having a clue about the neighborhood.
First of all, my personal opinion is that anybody paying a million bucks for a smallish house with a smallish yard is a crazy lunatic, regardless of how much money they make. But that’s besides the point.
The point being is the home overpriced? Of course, for some people, it isn’t. There are always going to be people with more money to buy sometimes even the most mundane things: aka- the upside down plane stamp.Is it overpriced for EVERYONE? Well, as you suggest, no.
But that still doesn’t satisfy the basic premise if the discussion, which would be if the house is overpriced in the general housing market. The answer would unequivocally be a solid yes. Looking up some of the stats for one of the wealthiest areas in the BA- Sunnyvale, the stats are as follows:
Sunnyvale:
Median household income : $100,079
Median Home price : $715,000
Family purchase power,annual : $57,950
Job Growth : -2.61%
So there you have your answer. Simply put, there is no way that the avg household in Sunnyvale can afford to pay for the median family home, no matter how you cut it. This house, along with the remainder of the homes in the area are overpriced.
July 30th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
correction- should have said I now THINK mortgages are a bargain.
If it costs $3K to rent for chrissakes people- buy.
July 30th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Anyone priced mortgages recently? I know someone who bought a place and there are all kinds of problems with getting the building approved and they are in danger of losing their rate lock. He said they’ve priced equivalent mortgages and they are up to 6.75%, their rate they locked in last month was much lower. Yes this is a conforming loan and they are putting down over 50% on the place.
Today’s house is a nice size on a slightly oversized lot as well. I think the price is a little high and think it will go for $1.15-1.175. The same house south of Fremont Ave would go for $1.4 million (CUSD).
July 30th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
If your rent is $3,000 a month, then find another rental. You know, there is such a thing as renters being stupid and paying through the nose for rent. I pay half of that and its a hell of a lot nicer than today’s house.
July 30th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
bob, there is no way the above house is a starter home. Anyone moving in would have sold another house to move up to this one. So calling this an average Sunnyvale house and comparing it to the average Svl income is not useful.
What’s unfortunate is the family moving into this house could have originally sold a house in Fremont or Milpitas to upgrade to Sunnyvale. Such FBs have lost 30-40% of their home’s value and many lost all their equity. A family who bought a townhouse, such as in Northwoods (off Homestead) or those places on New Brunswick behind the Safeway, would have done great because they were also CUSD.
July 30th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
bob, whatcha gonna do if your landlord has medical problems or a financial reversal and has to sell your house, leaving you to find another rental? You’re not going to get another deal like the one you have today. I say this as someone who was comfortably renting and got kicked out due to our landlord’s financial upheaval, not due to any poor decisions of our own.
July 30th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
yes bob, you have cheap rent - IN THE EAST BAY. that is just not an option for many people. Your commute costs to a south bay job would be $120/wk or something, theres $500 right there not to mention your time.
July 30th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
>>bob, there is no way the above house is a starter home. Anyone moving in would have sold another house to move up to this one. So calling this an average Sunnyvale house and comparing it to the average Svl income is not useful.
Agree. With a house like this, you’re likely to find a director level person living in there.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
bob - “This house, along with the remainder of the homes in the area are overpriced.”
You’re not making sense. If it’s overpriced, it won’t sell, period. If it sells for under asking, then it was priced for negotiation, not overpriced. Overpriced houses are the ones that are not selling. Just state you wouldn’t pay for this and keep your comments about potential buyers where they belong. It gets tiring to hear you insult every day the entire pool of homebuyers in the bay area just because the world isn’t as you wish it was.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Madhaus,
I can just as easily ask you the exact same set of questions: What if your working husband gets sick, loses his job, etc etc?Will you have to sell the house since you don’t work?Would you have to go back to school and learn new skills? So you really don’t have a case because those things are just as likely to happen as it is in my case.
I can tell you personally that if the worst happened and we had to move ( which we’re going to do probably in another 2-3 years out of state anyway) that we’d FIND ANOTHER rental house, of which there are at least 3-4 for rent for similar prices down the street from us. Is it really that big of a deal? nope. Is it such a big deal that I feel like I need to spend 3 times as much on a mortgage that would effectively have even more risk of financial catastrophe?
WG, $120 is a stretch. More like $40 because our car gets fantastic fuel economy. And as mentioned, we leave for work early, and get off early, which takes us around 35-40 minutes each way. Oh no! How awful! SO much worse than those who commute 30 minute through the snarled, jammed-packed streets of Palo Alto to get to their oh-so-convenient bungalows.
Anyhow, I’m off the point. I guess what I find simply amazing is that I think people on this forum seem to in many cases miss the point of the blog, which is to show insanely overpriced houses as a sort of monument to the lunacy of the times. Yet every day, we have like 4-5 people actually talk about them as if a million bucks for a totally mundane, small house is perfectly A-ok and somehow worth it for some stupid reason- like good schools, or something of the like. It isn’t! A million for a house like this is ridiculous! Why on earth would you pay that kind of money for this or any other sort of house? Doesn’t little alarm bells go off in your heads? I’m saying this as someone who makes well above the local median income, yet even for me, the prices of these houses are absolutely mind blowing and nonsensical. Get a grip people- the BA isn’t all that. Sorry to break your bubble, but it aint.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
I know we all laugh at Zillow’s Zestimates, but check out the estimates on this house:
Estimating Site….. Low………. Estimate… High
Zillow.com………. $1,234,200 $1,402,500 $1,556,775
Eppraisal.com….. $1,165,900 $1,371,648 $1,577,395
Cyberhomes.com $1,240,785 $1,378,650 $1,585,448
I don’t think it’s overpriced by that much, but these estimates are to laugh. The only estimate I agree wtih is Eppraisal’s low one. It could be that with Cherry Chase’s scores, the values for this neighborhood have gone up (and you do get Homestead High as well).
July 30th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Anyhow,
Sorry I blew my top just then. Sort of a crummy day.But anyway, its obvious that I don’t reside on the BA real estate cheer wagon and probably never will. have a good evening.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Madhaus,
I can just as easily ask you the exact same set of questions: What if your working husband gets sick, loses his job, etc etc?Will you have to sell the house since you don’t work?Would you have to go back to school and learn new skills? So you really don’t have a case because those things are just as likely to happen as it is in my case.
bob, nothing bad will happen to us. We have plenty saved up, and other investments. Our house will be paid off in less than six years. We could pay it off today but it would be stupid to do so since our mortgage is at a low rate. Also I could go back to work at any point, I just won’t make $150K to start since I’ve been out of the workforce for a while. I’m sure you know all this because I’ve mentioned it more than once, so I have no idea why you felt the need to ask it.
I find it surprising you could get the same rent deal as the place you’ve been living in for a while, that means there are a lot of empty rentals sitting around. Otherwise rents for new tenants tend to rise unless the market has something funny going on.* You made a point of saying your landlord doesn’t raise your rent because he wants to keep you as tenants. I assure you the rental market here is much tighter.
*in May 1990 I rented a house and lowballed the asked rent, we got the house for $200/mo under what they requested. We could do that because we knew the house sat empty for 3 months per the next-door neighbors. This was also past the peak of a buy bubble.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
WG, having recently debated the rent v. buy myself, I can say with certainly that it is still much, much cheaper to rent than buy. I just moved from SF to Sunnyvale (I know, I know). The place I rent is in a pretty nice area and rents for 2200. The owners were tempted to put it on the market for 850k and zillow appraises it at 830k. Needless to say, renting at 2200 or buying at 850k is a no brainer. Buying v. renting becomes even more of a no brainer in areas like Palo Alto or Mt. View where it is even more expensive to buy v. rent.
Yes, I could probably find a cheap house in a crime-ridden area of SJ for 450k, which would make it in the ballpark of my current rental, but that’s not comparing apples to apples. When doing a rent/buy analysis, you have to compare the same neighborhoods. In decent areas like most of Sunnyvale, it is still much cheaper to rent than buy without even considering factors such buying a depreciating asset and putting up $$ into a downpayment that will return 0% forever.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
“A million for a house like this is ridiculous! Why on earth would you pay that kind of money for this or any other sort of house? Doesn’t little alarm bells go off in your heads?”
Nope, Bob, they don’t. That’s the problem. Granted, a million dollars isn’t necessarily too much for a house, but it is in the BA. People honestly think that its worth it to pay these prices for the “privilege” of sitting in traffic, paying more for groceries, etc etc. And, as long as that mind set exists, it will continue, hoist up by its own petard.
If people want to make the assertion that these homes aren’t overpriced, Bob can come in and say that they are.
Try and separate yourselves from the comps and the hype, people. A fricken million dollars for this thing. How long does it take you all to ‘make’ a million dollars so that you can pay for the thing? Oh - wait I forgot. It’s not about paying for the thing, its about taking out an ‘affordable’ mortgage.
A 1.25 million dollar home should not be 2.2k sqft. It is mind blowing that people think this is O.K.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Madhaus says,
>>Also I could go back to work at any point, I just won’t make $150K to start since I’ve been out of the workforce for a while.
What?? Are Mr. and Mrs. Madhaus both sharing the same alias? Is this the guitar player talking above?
July 30th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
“A million for a house like this is ridiculous! Why on earth would you pay that kind of money for this or any other sort of house? Doesn’t little alarm bells go off in your heads?”
If this house were in Los Altos, people would not blink to pay $2M for it.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
This house could not exist on that lot size in Los Altos, it’s zoned minimum 1/4 acre.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
What?? Are Mr. and Mrs. Madhaus both sharing the same alias? Is this the guitar player talking above?
Only one person ever posted under this username.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Madhaus,
So you’re the Mrs of the house? I recall you saying you’re a senior networking guy. Something doesn’t jive here.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
>paying more for groceries
HAH. YEAH RIGHT THEY WILL EVER KNOW.
Most Californians have never been outside of california. Most of my coworkers who are don’t know how much they are getting ripped off on groceries here. Of course, most of them are born here, or immigrated here.
It’s hysterical.
July 30th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
>>Anyone priced mortgages recently? I know someone who bought a place and there are all kinds of problems with getting the building approved and they are in danger of losing their rate lock. He said they’ve priced equivalent mortgages and they are up to 6.75%, their rate they locked in last month was much lower.
Yes, definitely rates are going higher. If you keep waiting to trade up, it might not be worth it by the time you’re ready.
>>Yes this is a conforming loan and they are putting down over 50% on the place.
Next time, don’t dispute me when I say there are tons of people with cash to buy.
July 30th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Most Californians have never been outside of california.
Considering that essentially ALL of Californias population growth from 1990 on has come from non-California natives, I have to ring the BS bell on this one.
Studies Reveal Virtually All California’s Population Explosion Due to Immigration; Native-Born Californians Leaving State
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5554/is_200306/ai_n21819482
July 30th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
THINK ABOUT IT.
The ones who stayed and are my coworkers are either born here in California or immigrated straight from China/Romania/India to here.
How would my California coworkers be people not living in California?
July 30th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
WG - that was an obvious troll. You can’t claim there are lots of immigrants here and in the same breath state they’ve never been elsewhere. Plus, one superlative in each sentence.
July 30th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
>they’ve never been elsewhere
SORRY.
I should have said they “had never lived in any parts of the US.”
Man you guys are picky (yet you can’t spell Manhattan right).
One of my coworkers who has only ever lived in California since coming from Mumbai was sent to a customer site in New England for 3 months. He came back and was absolutely floored by how cheaper groceries were. Couldn’t stop talking about it. What’s funny was that others just wrote brust him off - including the guy who went to Homestead High, then UCLA, and now works here.
July 30th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
http://www.svcn.com/archives/wgresident/20031126/wg-news1.shtml
RealEstater would love this.
“Campanella purchased his house, built by developer T.J. Martin, on Castile Court for $18,000 in 1960.
“I’ll have to admit there were nights where I’d lay awake wondering how I was going to make the $180 payment a month for the next 30 years,” says Campanella”
Well, same quandary in 2008.
July 30th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Come on, who cares about grocery prices. It should be a small % of your budget. Most of the time I don’t even look at the prices.
July 30th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
R, I agree its cheaper to rent than buy in the good neighborhoods. Thats the paradox that gets a lot of people. A lot of people *could* buy in the bay area, but choose to rent because they can rent in a nicer area.
But what seems to happen is those not-so-nice areas end up improving over time, and those people that did buy in areas like Hayward Park, are happy they did.
$2200 is a great rent for an 800K place and I don’t think that is easy to get anymore. A mortgage on an 800K place (with 10% down) will cost you approx $4600., so you are well ahead with your rent. But if you start having to pay closer to $3K, its a tougher equation. You do pay down some principal in the early days too, about $600/mo goes to the principal, so its only $4K “down the drain” so to speak.
July 30th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
“Campanella purchased his house, built by developer T.J. Martin, on Castile Court for $18,000 in 1960.
“I’ll have to admit there were nights where I’d lay awake wondering how I was going to make the $180 payment a month for the next 30 years,” says Campanella”
Well, same quandary in 2008.
There are differences though. The 1960’s-1970’s were the golden times for American workers. Some would say those were the least efficient times in America.
I think folks born after 1980 (or so) have a very different perspective on the future of their careers compared to those born in the 50’s-60’s.
Uh oh. I think this may enter the boomers vs non-boomers category.
July 30th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
burbed - despite the golden times, the guy was losing sleep on his mortgage and his friends had to move to central valley or reinvent themselves. So, same post-buy angst today and same sense that if you defer the house purchase, you will need to upgrade your skills to keep up with the opportunity to purchase a place you like. There are also more jobs in the bay area right now than in the 60s and 70s
Not going to say a word on boomers vs not. Different times, different people.
July 30th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Agree on all fronts WG, and yes, I did find a pretty good deal on rent, although last year it wouldn’t have been a good deal at all (rents have skyrocketed all over). What I think the hardest thing for most, including myself, to understand is how and why it costs so much to live in a dumpy neighborhood. It’s just the way it is here, which is why I know many leaving. I mean even a decent a neighborhood such as Sunnyvale would be considered a bad neighborhood in many other parts of the country. Where I grew up (Seattle suburb), even on the not-so-nice area, the size of people’s homes, yards, and lots as well as the general feel is much more like Los Altos or Hillsborough than Sunnyvale. Thus, when those that grew up elsewhere drive through SJ or like-looking places, they simply cannot believe how or why the houses they see would sell for what they do.
July 30th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Seattle’s pretty pricey these days. One of my friends lives there and reports that 3br houses are selling for $650k in top of the nation school districts.
July 30th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Holly cow, everybody posting 5 at least now? I can’t follow anymore.
I am confused with these jorgans:
OPEN S&S (?)
NEW 50 YEAR ROOF (50 yr is new?!)
LARGE INSIDE LAUNDRY ROOM (I know outside laundry room is ugly, but isn’t inside laundry expected?)
IMMACULATE HOME READY FOR YOUR BUYER (YOUR buyer? So this is written for a broker?)
SLAB GRANITE ENTRYWAY AND FIREPLACE (What does entryway and fireplace have in common other than granite?)
HUGE KITCHEN WITH BLACK GALAXY GRANITE COUNTERS (So it is those used by Darth Vader?)
Does it worth $1.25 mil? Totally, this is for those two eng couples making $250k a year, and I am not even talking about those two management class families, for them the affordable ability is too high to live in this area, they need to live in Los Altos Hills or Hillsborough, where they can finally show you they can afford something that is really expensive even for their income.
July 30th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
This listing is a joke, and so are people who complain that interest rates are high today. Please! 6% is high? GIVE ME A BREAK!. My first purchase, in 1994, was with a fixed 20 year at a whopping 8.25; that was a bargain then, and would still be today, if not for your out of whack prices. Of course, the purchase price was a sane $140K and the dollar was much stronger, so there was normalcy (yes for those of you who have no institutional memory or who are too young to remember, soaring prices are a BUSH phenomenon, and we all know how great he has been for the economy and your civil liberties). Back then, we had NORMAL PRICES, REAL QUALIFYING WITH DEMONSTRATED INCOME AND HIGH CREDIT SCORES, and few liar loans. The market needs to return to this model, folks, and it will adjust everywhere, regardless of what you think.(And for a taste of the future, check this link to a San Jose condo I sold in 2002 at nearly four times what I paid for it; it is now headed DOWN, DOWN, DOWN, at roughly $14K a month, and is near what it was when I sold it ($341K). Yes, I laughed all the way to the bank, and as a renter in a vastly cheaper state now, I’m still laughing. I retired on the profit at 52 and am about to pay cash for a HUGE home here. You Californians are suckers. Enjoy the ride down in your overpriced crap shack.
July 30th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Oops! Forgot the link: http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=19709115
You would have to be insane to buy this crap, and that’s what it is. 1979 era crap. Plus, the homeowner dues for which there are zero amenities (fully nondeductible, by the way) have soared from $84 a month in 1994 to $285, so you’re throwing away almost $3600 of your “instant equity” each year! And you get nothing but free landscaping!
July 30th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
“Come on, who cares about grocery prices. It should be a small % of your budget. Most of the time I don’t even look at the prices.”
Of course not. Who cares about Gas prices also? I certainly don’t. However, it’s not the percentage of the budget that spreads people thin, its the impact on the margin.
Guess what, RE? This is going to come as a shocker: There are other people in this world besides you. Not only that, those small differences add up and when you’re struggling to make ends meet they make a difference.
Buckborden’s statements: “You Californians are suckers. Enjoy the ride down in your overpriced crap shack.” are spot on, and people like RE are to blame for causing this.
The bay area wasn’t always like this…too bad its not likely to return to the way it was.
July 30th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
HOA actually can cover a lot of stuff:
I’ve had roof cover changed, door repainted. Some had their outside stairs changed. And the HOA also covers pool and playground. I was enraged that a nearby SFH development had their entrance sealed off so that people from our development cannot go through their area while they come over to our open development to enjoy our tree covered walkways and playground. They only have nicely built houses on small lots, nothing else.
July 30th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
>> Buckborden’s statements: “You Californians are suckers. Enjoy the ride down in your overpriced crap shack.”
Realized this early on and moved out. Feeling great that I did that. Quality of life has improved so much just by getting out of BA. Really I sometimes think that people lose ability to reason and logical thinking by staying in BA. Really, are these the people who take pride in calling themselves engineers with superb analytical/logical reasoning ? I fail to understand.
July 30th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
rick, I would also like to know what “Open S&S” is. Open steak and shrimp? Open sores and stomach? Open sesame and sage?
A 50 year roof refers to how long the roof should last, not how old it is. Unless you’re just yankin’ my chain again.
A shout out to steve from an old thread, no my house isn’t down 20% yet, but I found a new listing (went up while I was in NJ) in 94087/CUSD/Homestead and it’s under a million. PRICES ARE COMING DOWN HERE. A similar house with an updated kitchen on a less busy street went for $1.15m 2 months ago. I am not sure that the missing 1000sf and the location can account for a 16% price difference, 10% maybe, which makes me think the other 6% is a price drop.
Also I sent burbed a house he hasn’t run, a place in ‘87/CUSD for $749K.
July 30th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Madhaus, that 94087 house is the highest price per sqf among the neighborhood houses on sale, I don’t know what steve said, I think it must be that his shack worths more than yours because it is smaller.
July 30th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
>> Buckborden’s statements: “You Californians are suckers. Enjoy the ride down in your overpriced crap shack.”
Realized this early on and moved out. Feeling great that I did that. Quality of life has improved so much just by getting out of BA. Really I sometimes think that people lose ability to reason and logical thinking by staying in BA.
100% agree.
What is laughable from my perspective is seeing a repeat of the same mentality that I witnessed during the dot com boom and bust. People in California, especially Nor Cal live in a perpetual state of unmitigated denial. It is quite remarkable. I could literally take the statements on this sight uttered by the housing bulls and replace the word “house” with “dot com” and the sentences would merge perfectly with the one’s I read back then.
I am sorry home-owners, but this will not end well. We are on the verge of the option ARM and I/O resets which will be coming starting 2009. And which area was ground zero for those prime loan types? That would be the Bay Area.
In the meantime, I will sit back, grab some popcorn and enjoy the show.
July 30th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
WillowGlenner,
Houses in Willow Glenn have “charm”??? I think WG is an overpriced dump.
July 30th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
What is with these two-toned houses? Suddenly very chic.
No.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Madhaus,
No answer to post #67? You’re not being very forthcoming here. I never dodged any of your questions.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
>>What is with these two-toned houses? Suddenly very chic.
Come on, man. That’s just brick on the lower half.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
First, let me start by saying that the BA isn’t nearly as bad as a few are making it out to be. There are far worse places to live (LA anyone?). That said, I do believe there are many places, both in and out of CA, that offer better qualify of living, all things considered. However, for many living in Silicon Valley, moving elsewhere is not an option because they work in the tech field. If you are in the tech arena, there are really very few options and I’m sure the competition is fierce. There is definitely something to be said for a good job and good lateral prospects (ie. choices). For those not in tech (like myself), I really don’t understand the allure. You can work less hours for more pay (comparatively) and have a better house with better schools elsewhere. Of course you still have to find a job. After a couple years, it is difficult to relocate in my field as well.
To sum it up. I think for the average tech person (or very high up professional like a tech exec, VC, or tech or corporate attorney), the BA is very attractive because of the job market and nice enclaves like Los Altos, Hillsborough, etc that bear no semblence to the rest of the BA. For everyone else (particularly public employees), it is much less appealing. Just my two cents.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
I don’t know much about schools in Sunnyvale or Menlo Park, but to me this house is more chic than the Sunnyvale one. It’s only a 3/2 though.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Herve,
Believe me, you don’t want to buy a house on any numbered street in Menlo Park.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
RealEstater - Why not? Between the Menlo and the Sunnyvale, same price, I’d not hesitate either.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
rick Says:
HOA actually can cover a lot of stuff:
I’ve had roof cover changed, door repainted. Some had their outside stairs changed.
OOH!!!! Wow! Door repainted!!!! New outside stairs!!! Man, I shudda kept that condo!
Actually, something horrible happened that soured me forever on condos or any “homeowner association” development. Two days before my escrow closed, I got dunned $4,000 for new windows, and I couldn’t say no. There was nothing wrong with the old windows, but eight people who owned 14 of the 32 units in the complex–decided otherwise. So I had to pay the $4K even though I wasn’t going to see anything through the new windows. I paid for a benefit for the current owners of the unit merely because I technically still owned it the day the assessment was approved. You have zero recourse when your association wants to take your money. Another great “benefit” of homeownership, I guess…
July 30th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Dear Micky,
Smart man. Thanks for backing my reality check!
July 30th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
buckborden,
So those you have to pay extra? Is this the same for all HOA? I kind of doubt that is my case because my landlord would jump sky high if it were $1K, and he would have raised my rent.
Not that I think great of condos, in fact I would avoid buying one for all cost, high HOA being part of it.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Guys from out of CA needs to calm down, at least you don’t have to deal with the insaneness, and somehow you are the angriest bunch. People find a way to deal with hassles in life.
July 30th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
“In the San Francisco metropolitan area - which Case-Shiller defines as the counties of Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, San Francisco and San Mateo - prices fell 22.9 percent in May compared with a year ago. That made the area the sixth worst-performing region in the country, according to the index, after Las Vegas (down 28.4 percent), Miami (down 28.3 percent), Phoenix (down 26.5 percent), Los Angeles (down 24.5 percent) and San Diego (down 23.2 percent).”
“‘On a relative total performance basis, San Francisco is still a market that grew quite a lot from the mid-1990s to 2006; its prices increased very sharply during that time,’ said Maureen Maitland, VP at Standard & Poor’s, which publishes the index. ‘I don’t want to undermine the fact that … San Francisco is not doing well; prices are in sharp decline, but most people who owned a home for five, 10 or 15 years are still in relatively good shape if they want to sell their home today - they just can’t sell it for (as much) as last year.’”
July 30th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
DreamT,
Make that between Sunnyvale and East Menlo, which is similar to East Palo Alto. Would you hesitate now?
July 30th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
>>Guys from out of CA needs to calm down,
Make that guys forced out of CA.
July 30th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
RealEstater - This is not Belle Haven. I can see it’s on the wrong side of Middlefield Rd., but it’s on the good side of 101. I doubt the neighborhood has much resemblance to EPA especially its crime history. The lawn is green, come on!
But I never drove there, so you may be right anyway.
July 30th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
It’s the transition between EPA and RWC. Before you go there, better practice your Espanol.
July 30th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
buckborden - HOAs are (supposed to be) the financial reserve for major repairs. A few years ago it seems like the metrics they use to determine monthly fees (estimated life of common areas and building structure) were dramatically reevaluated, forcing a neverending increase in HOA dues.
I had to shell off several thousands as well when I sold my condo in order for the next owner to enjoy a soon-to-be-built gate. It also left a sour taste. That’s how it is though - HOAs bridle your freedom, but without a condo we would never have had scrapped enough for a house downpayment.
In Orange County, I hear of many SFR with HOA fees and, I assume, assorted covenants and other restrictions. Enough to discourage me from ever looking into these areas.
July 30th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
RealEstater - No habla. I’ll check it out in person. The lot itself looks nice enough, maybe the place is undergoing gentrification?
July 30th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
> eight people who owned 14 of the 32 units
14 out of 32? And that’s enough for a majority in the HOA??
July 30th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Herve, in a HOA, it’s hard enough to get a quorum. Many owners just don’t vote even when meeting attendance is optional. The majority is based on whomever bothered to vote.
July 31st, 2008 at 12:09 am
Rule of thumb is never buy a property that has HOA. Just say no to HOA!
July 31st, 2008 at 12:34 am
In Orange County, I hear of many SFR with HOA fees and, I assume, assorted covenants and other restrictions.
——-
Oh yes. If your car is dirty, your neighbor can complain about it. Because his home value will start plummeting due to your dirty car.
July 31st, 2008 at 12:53 am
Pralay,
If your lawn is not watered, your neighbor can complain too.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:13 am
How about obnoxious neighbors? I mean… noxious neighbors? Can they be shipped one-way to Palo Alto?
(cheap shot I know)
July 31st, 2008 at 1:19 am
Real Estater Says:
>>Guys from out of CA needs to calm down,
Make that guys forced out of CA.
FORCED OUT? You are sooooo wrong, man. I took my fast fortune from my ridiculously overpriced crap condo and sailed outta there after living in the Bay Area all my life. Saw quite enough of the horrible changes wrought by political correctness and the influx of minority garbage. My former (nice) neighborhood in Hayward resembles East LA. No, thanks, man, at any price. You suckers reap what you sow.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:23 am
“minority garbage” -> nicely put, Mr. Fascist. Good riddance. I’m sure everybody’s color is more appealing to you wherever you landed.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:28 am
I’m ceaselessly amazed that well-to-do, supposedly educated folks who should know better would want to move to the Bay Area, let alone stay there. The Bay Area is the capital of greed and shallowness. Highly overrated and mindbogglingly overvalued.
July 31st, 2008 at 8:04 am
I agree that if you’re in tech, that the BA is a good place to find work. But it isn’t necessarily as insulated and exclusive in this regard. It might have been in then past. For example, I know for fact that of the five competitors that we have, three of them are in Austin,TX. The other interesting thing is that when I look on the Austin company profiles, There’s a stark difference between the ages of their head developers and CEOs than what you typically see in BA companies. They tend to have younger staffs, as in 20-30somethings. If you read any history in regards to the tech boom in the BA, all of them started with younger entrepreneurs. Perhaps this age gap is a foretelling of the future.
The bottom line is that if I were to suddenly up and move to Austin, Dallas, Atlanta, or some other large, less expensive city, I would feel fairly confident in getting a job. Perhaps not as quickly as I would here, but definitely within a reasonable time.
Additionally, since tech makes up 30% of the economy in the BA, that means there are more people making higher salaries, which I admit has something to do with the higher prices. But at the current price level, higher tech salaries don’t come close to compensating for the higher prices because the prices are above the typical tech related income. Whatever professional advantage people have in the BA inn regards to access to jobs is heavily undermined by the cost of living. For comparison, I have enough to buy a home in Austin, or just about anywhere else for that matter except for the coasts. If I lost a job in Austin, just the fact that my house would already be paid for, along with my additional savings would place me in a fairly comfortable situation. It would also be unlikely that both me and my Wife would be unemployed, thus we would still be perfectly fine on only one salary.In the Bay Area, I wouldn’t feel comfortable making that call.
In response to immigrants and those who are hard-core Californians, well my observations after being here for 9 years is that the vast majority of those who live here are from an extremely limited collection of segments of the country. The overall majority seem to be from the East Coast: NY,MA,NJ,etc etc. Either that or they’re from another part of California. Or they might be from India,China, Mexico, etc etc. Many who move here because they seek another area that shares the same characteristics of their previous area: big metro area, liberal politics, food, and so on. If you’re from somewhere like NY where schools also sort of suck, the cost of living is also very high, and there are tons of people clogging up the freeways, then a move to California means you’re getting a lot of the same. If you’ve never experienced living anywhere else, then you wouldn’t have a clue what living somewhere that isn’t like California or New York is like.
So in conclusion, if all that you’ve ever known is high prices for housing, poor infrastructure such as bad roads and schools, overcrowding, and so on, then you’re also going to be one of those people who thinks that paying 600k for a house just because it’s near a ‘good’ school is perfectly A-ok. Perhaps this is what makes me have such a difference of opinion.I’ve lived “out there” and on the coasts. There is a dramatic difference between the way in which people live here and on the East coast and how people live within the interior or in other metro areas. The quality of life comparison is a legitimate claim. I’ve seen it myself.
July 31st, 2008 at 8:44 am
Agree Bob. I would also add that Seattle has a fair number of tech jobs and a strong job in general and offers a much higher quality of life if you can deal with less daylight and more rain Mid-Nov through late-Feb. Summers and Fall however are great, much warmer and sunnier than SF.
July 31st, 2008 at 8:46 am
rick: “Guys from out of CA needs to calm down, at least you don’t have to deal with the insaneness, and somehow you are the angriest bunch.”
Well, they have to convince themselves that they made the right choice by not moving here. And it’s always easier–and much more fun!–to say that everything else sucks, rather than saying that the place you’re in is okay.
See, that’s one of the (many) problems with America these days. Nobody seems to be willing to accept the idea that what I’ve got is okay for me. Either it’s the best of anything, or it’s the worst of everything and not worth any money and God why did you even bother? Me saying that I like my house and I can afford the payments just gets me mocked on sites like this one–”LOL KNIFECATCHER ENJOY UR UPSIDEDOWN!!!”