September 23, 2008

Palo Alto houses – overbids are still very common

Bay Area home sales sluggish, prices continue to slip [Burbed.com]
steve Says:
September 22nd, 2008 at 7:55 am

some pricing news from the field: 2250 amherst in palo alto, mentioned here in the comments of a previous thread. 2377 sq ft and a very odd layout – one very large bedroom, one small one and one too small even for a daybed or a closet. 2 levels with a basement workshop and a garage. funky, interesting, but bad for families unless you sink $250K in it to fix the floor plan. it photographed well, but check the kitchen, the acoustic tile ceilings in many of the rooms, the lack of a master bath, the 6000 sq ft lot.

anyway, listed at $1.495M, open 1 weekend, sold with 6 offers for more than $1.7M.

Thanks to Steve for this on the ground report.

With all this bad news lately, I’m just glad to see there was some good news in the Real Bay Area!

Tags:
Comments (267) -- Posted by: burbed @ 5:59 am

267 Responses to “Palo Alto houses – overbids are still very common”

  1. Herve Says:

    > listed at $1.495M, open 1 weekend, sold with 6 offers for more than $1.7M.

    I’m not surprised. It was way better than the other houses showing at $1.5M anyway. However, I doubt fixing the floor plan would cost $250K.

    And it was in the good part of Palo Alto, far from the foreigners-invaded soccer fields (not a rickroll, you can click).

  2. sonarrat Says:

    This is west of El Camino Real and just north of Page Mill next to Stanford. I would expect this kind of frenzy in that area. In fact, I would expect $1000 a sf.

  3. steve Says:

    agreed on the excellent location — close to stanford, short walk to great schools, good proximity to california ave. and, agreed that the final price isn’t unreasonable for Palo Alto, but that last part is a huge qualification.

    the point of my original comment wasn’t, look at this insane sale. instead, I wanted to point out that it is business as usual in the 1.5-2.0M segment. decent houses in good locations sell immediately because there is more (extremely well-qualified) demand than supply. my sense is that prices are 5-10% above last year in PA and Los Altos.

  4. madhaus Says:

    function redirect(URL)
    {
    document.location=URL;
    return false;
    }

    So steve, in essence you agree with Chuckie. If the house is in a great location and isn’t priced too high, it will sell quickly. Any house that doesn’t sell within 10 days is therefore in a bad location (busy street, power lines, airport, next to a crack house, former brothel, you get the idea).

    I bet none of my JavaScript code will work here anyway.

    RICK ROLL REMOVED

  5. nomadic Says:

    Does anyone have a few more data points to tell us whether “overbids are very common” is an exaggeration or the facts of life in the RBA in today’s market?

    I had some 6-8 months ago for my area but I’m not seeing them anymore. (At least partly because I’m not watching as closely either!)

  6. madhaus Says:

    nomadic, you have to pay more attention! Renters are knocking on doors, properties are flying through windows, and there’s a feeding frenzy in 94087! I can barely water my lawn with all these Sound Business Plans I’m tripping over.

    Oh wait, that’s my husband’s lunchbox.

  7. nomadic Says:

    LMAO! Oh, I totally forgot. Damn, I should’ve stayed in 94087! (I bought in LG, BTW. Nice to be a couple blocks from hiking in the hills but it’s a bit too hot/cold for my taste. The orchids aren’t very happy either.)

  8. rick Says:

    http://sanmateore.dreamhosters.com/

    Look at the Atherton house, I know I know, it is not as desirable as Palo Alto, it is on the wrong street, it is too expensive for steve, blah blah.

    Does this prove that RBA is in the toilet? Heck if George Bush were talking about RBA and steve’s view he is damn right that “fundamentals are strong in America”.

  9. Lionel Says:

    This ought to be good for the RBA –

    Wells Fargo 30 Year Jumbo Mortgage Rates at 9.2% APR

    from calculatedrisk.blogspot.com

  10. steve Says:

    the august data for palo alto is here: http://www.julianalee.com/reinfo/sold-PA.htm

    One property I would call out to highlight the strength of the market is 443 Ferne. It closed for 1.795M which is amazing for very south palo alto. 1884 sq ft including a partially converted garage. nicely done, but 1884 sq ft. 443 ferne last sold for $517K in 1997

  11. madhaus Says:

    The strength of the market is a very funny thing. I see a number of homes on that list whose listing price was reduced quite a bit. I also see the new DataQuick numbers are out for August. Did you know just about 1 out of 4 sales in Santa Clara County had been foreclosed on within the last 12 months?

    Previously foreclosured sales varied from a low of 8.6% in San Francisco to 61% in Solano county.

    Also the LA Times reports half (yes HALF) of all sales in Southern California were foreclosed homes.

  12. steve Says:

    @madhaus, how many of those houses did you see? how many were “right-priced” to use an industry term? how many were seriously reaching like Ferne? the ones that were under-priced to create a frenzy were obvious, and those set new records for their streets.

    unlike 2006, condition of a house, location, neighborhood, noise, … all matter now, even in Palo Alto. if you have a crap house you have to price it like early 2007. if you have a semi-solid listing, you get to sell it as if the bubble never popped.

    feel free to find your own adjective to describe the market in the RBA.

  13. madhaus Says:

    steve, I haven’t seen any of those Palo Alto houses, we aren’t looking to move now, remember? We would be looking at same places as you if we were willing to move up but it just doesn’t make sense in this economic climate.

    So as more properties founder, the few “good” listings attract frenzies. Have you ever heard the phrase “Spending money like it was going out of style?” I’ve seen that behavior at carnivals where people get funny money and they realize that the auction is ending and they’re going to end up with nothing if they don’t dump their scrip.

    That’s what’s happening with the Palo Alto homes in good locations. But little else is behaving that way. And as I mentioned last week, 94087 listings are down pricewise.

  14. SiO2 Says:

    Nomadic –
    About 2 months ago I saw two overbid frenzies in Los Altos. Just north of Fremont (LA school district) near 85.
    House 1:
    ~1700 ft. Reasonable condition, eg. kitchen was upgraded in the last decade. Asked 1.398, got 1.485 with ~5 offers.
    House 2:
    ~1400 ft. Not very good condition. Asked 1.2, got ~1.35 with multiple offers.
    (sorry for the imprecision, I don’t exactly remember)
    These are both in a nice location.

    So there are multiple bidders if the house is priced low and the location is good. The condition of the house is less critical than location. Which makes sense, the land is about 75% of the value of these properties considering that you could build a 1500ft house for $300k. It is a little less frenzied than last summer, when a 1645 ft poor-condition house went for 1.51! And if stocks continue to dive and layoffs come then the situation would change.

    OTOH houses that are freeway adjacent linger on the market even if they are nice and the price is low.

    Lionel,
    I heard about this WF mortgage rate too. But, I just checked bankrate.com, and it shows the average rate for 30 year jumbo is 7.18%. And they had several options for $1m for 7.75%. So maybe WF just doesn’t want to write jumbo right now, but other options exist. 7.75% isn’t low, but it’s not usury either.

  15. anon Says:

    “So as more properties founder, the few “good” listings attract frenzies. Have you ever heard the phrase “Spending money like it was going out of style?” I’ve seen that behavior at carnivals where people get funny money and they realize that the auction is ending and they’re going to end up with nothing if they don’t dump their scrip.”

    Well fuckin’ said. Your analogy is pretty good and this is a point I have been trying to make for some time now.

    People are desperately trading up while there is still funny money left in the system (and in their pockets).

    This is going to be a long ride.

  16. madhaus Says:

    About 2 months ago I saw two overbid frenzies in Los Altos. Just north of Fremont (LA school district) near 85.

    SiO2, north of Fremont is Oak Elementary. I checked out the Los Altos school district maps and they’re monkeying with the borders for this new school year, due to re-opening Bullis-Purissima. Also the weirdest thing was a small section near San Antonio/Showers drive that doesn’t go to the closest elementary school but Covington instead.

    So here’s the reverse of the “north of Fremont” effect in Sunnyvale, where CUSD is better than SSD. In Los Altos, south of Fremont is CUSD, which scores better overall and for middle school, but LASD is more desired anyway. (And prices show that.)

    anon, glad you got what I was trying to get at with the funny money. I see big-time inflation coming.

  17. RealEstater Says:

    >>In Los Altos, south of Fremont is CUSD, which scores better overall and for middle school, but LASD is more desired anyway. (And prices show that.)

    Damn, isn’t this what I told you the other day? And you were making a big scene about it when you knew what I was saying was correct!

  18. Herve Says:

    I mentioned the house on Amherst after Chuckie mentioned Classic Communities in Palo Alto. Well one of these is on MLS for $1.46M (already 30K less than what RealEstater said 2 weeks ago).

    http://www.redfin.com/CA/Palo-Alto/3270-W-BAYSHORE-Rd-94303/home/17318249

    The lot size says 3.51 acres but I doubt it :-)

    RICK ROLL REMOVED BY BURBED.

  19. RealEstater Says:

    >>already 30K less than what RealEstater said 2 weeks ago.

    Come on; I was only giving a ball park number from memory. It was close enough. What’s $30K anyways?

  20. rick Says:

    >>What’s $30K anyways?

    Large enough sum for some “RE potential investor” to turn away from what he described as a well priced property.

  21. SiO2 Says:

    Madhaus,
    Oak Elem is one of the top 10 APIs in California. 980 or something like that. South of Fremont is CUSD / Homestead – elem has an excellent score, Cupertino Middle is very good, Homestead is good but not Monta Vista.
    The other thing is that LA/MV HS doesn’t score as well as Homestead, but there’s more to life than scores. They have great extracurricular programs, over 100 clubs for example.
    The business with the small section near San Antonio/Showers drive is a bit of NIMBY ism. That area is MV apartments/condos. The LA residents there objected to the local elem school getting all the apartment-dwellers. (darn renters! :)) So the apartment area was split up and some of those kids have to go farther. I can see the point of the LA residents but it seems a little ugly, maybe the LA residents could have the option of going to the farther school if they didn’t want to mingle with the MVers.

    The MVers probably play soccer on LA parks too!

    Anyhow you are absolutely right about prices, north of Fremont is higher than south of Fremont, maybe $50-100k. South of Foothill the prices go up again but that area is a little more visually appealing with rolling hills. Also walking distance to Rancho San Antonio, very nice.

  22. Herve Says:

    > RICK ROLL REMOVED BY BURBED.

    Burbed, did you write a script for that? :-)

  23. RealEstater Says:

    >>RICK ROLL REMOVED BY BURBED.

    Thanks for cleaning up the juvenile stuff.

  24. nomadic Says:

    RE, madhaus – more info on your favorite zip (well, actually the whole town): it’s the FASTEST selling market in the country according to Business Week two weeks ago. But prices are flat-to-down from last year.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/105707/Where-Homes-Are-Selling-Fastest;_ylt=AuBx7GXmlkdrRQAfaH9vO0Ffo9IF

  25. RealEstater Says:

    Nomadic,

    Sunnyvale CUSD (94087) is where the action is. The rest of the city really isn’t that great.

  26. RealEstater Says:

    Case in point, check MLS #80833679. Open house last Sunday (9/21), gone Sale Pending today (9/23). Asking price was $899K. Overbidding guaranteed. Same thing with another home I saw last weekend. That was first day Open House. Gone from MLS already. What that says is there are tons of people looking to buy homes around a million right now.

    Housing downturn? Credit crisis? Mortgage issues? Never heard of it in the RBA!

  27. nomadic Says:

    Yes, RE, I’m familiar with the area. Lived there four years (94087). You’re even “prickly” when someone agrees with you a little bit. No wonder we always pick on you.

    (BTW, rick, nice one in #20! You picked up on a point I had made. San Mateo, if I recall.)

    So, with all of this open house activity for you RE, are you going to buy your long-awaited investment property in the good ol’ 94087?

  28. RealEstater Says:

    Nomadic,

    Can’t you tell that I am shut out of 94087? I cannot compete with the frenzied buyers in that area. However, I am keeping tabs on multiple areas to see if I can find an opening somewhere. No luck so far as RBA is rock solid.

  29. madhaus Says:

    Herve the reason the “lot” says 3.51 acres is that’s the entire development. The ad copy says the lot is 3500-3700 sf. Quite a difference, no? Click on the aerial view to see your 3.51 acres.

    Also, what’s with the rickroll removals (yours, plus mine in #4)? I thought burbed had a sense of humor. Does that mean I can’t share the barack roll anymore?

    SiO2, thanks for the update on the bizarre gerrymandering of Showers/San Antonio. I actually had a post with all those APIs that got blown away by the constant site up/down-ness so the heck with it. The middle schools in LASD score higher than Cupertino did, though. Montclaire (Los Altos school in CUSD, for those south of Fremont) scored 954.

    The activity in 94087 shows the prices are down. There not only weren’t any homes listed for $899K in the spring, there weren’t any in CUSD listed under a million. Any agent can create a feeding frenzy by underpricing a house.

    Re – the house on Finch – that’s a nice location near the park, of course it’s Fremont HS. Smaller lot (many homes in Sunnyvale have 8000+ lot sizes) too. Note how many homes selling for under $900K in the comps on redfin, though.

    I don’t understand why anyone would want to buy 94087 for investment. Prices are coming down, but not as fast as Palo Alto’s will be falling next year.

  30. Pralay Says:

    I don’t understand why anyone would want to buy 94087 for investment. Prices are coming down, but not as fast as Palo Alto’s will be falling next year.
    ———

    Provided someone is ACTUALLY planning to invest and walk the talk.

  31. RealEstater Says:

    Madhaus says,
    >>The activity in 94087 shows the prices are down. There not only weren’t any homes listed for $899K in the spring, there weren’t any in CUSD listed under a million. Any agent can create a feeding frenzy by underpricing a house.

    OK, let me understand this. You’re saying $900K house in 94087 is an underpricing strategy. In other words, $1M to live in a shack is still the going rate. How does that jive with your argument that prices are down?

    If prices are truely down, a house like this with no speical issues (not on busy street, near railroad track etc.) would still be sitting even at $900K. Can you imagine this house priced at $900K being considered a screaming bargain in other parts of the country?

  32. nomadic Says:

    Here’s one for you RE and I wouldn’t even call it a shack. It’s over 3000sf in Cupertino. Probably even Monta Vista high. (I didn’t check.) Pretty views. All good except there are some power lines nearby, but it last sold for $1.32M. NOT a short sale; price just slashed from $1.6M to $999,950. I’d be tempted except for the pool.

  33. nomadic Says:

    Ooops, left out the link. But maybe the spam-bot will get me. Look up 23019 Voss Avenue, Cupertino on redfin.

  34. DreamT Says:

    “As Is Sale.” Maybe there’s something fishy with the fundamentals; the revised price sounds a bit too good to be true.

  35. Pralay Says:

    If prices are truely down, a house like this with no speical issues (not on busy street, near railroad track etc.) would still be sitting even at $900K.
    ——–

    Ha ha! Gar price down from $4 to $3.75. But according to RealEstater’s logic, it is still not down. Because gas is still selling.

  36. Pralay Says:

    Oops, I forgot that Chuck Norris thing.

    If Chuckie says price is not down, it is not down.

  37. RealEstater Says:

    Pralay,

    Note that I’m only questioning what Madhaus said. I didn’t make those assertions.

  38. Pralay Says:

    But your questioning is based on a faulty logic that anything that sells (or already sold) should not be considered for down price. As usual you put a condition that a house needs to be sit on market for X amount of time to be considered for down price.

  39. madhaus Says:

    nomadic, did you look at the street view for Voss? Looks like the Starship Enterprise when they get a photon torpedo attack: tilt the camera and have all the actors fall over.

    Seriously, for that lot size that price is too good. Yes, it is Monta Vista High (along with Kennedy & Lincoln in CUSD). And here is one reason why it’s so cheap:

    Sewer & Septic

    * Sewer in Street and Not Connected

    And I bet a lot of the land isn’t usable, either. Also notice they aren’t showing the bedrooms in the photos, but a lot of outdoor hardscaping.

    I suspect someone ran out of money on “recent upgrades.” The house isn’t listed as a pre-foreclosure. Yet. But the owners have a million dollar variable loan on the place from WaMu, written in 2005. Wanna bet it’s a Pay Option ARM? The 2006 sale has no info in it, but it’s to someone with the same last name so probably family sale.

    OMG the recorder’s office has it owned by six different entities, 4 trusts plus the s original purchasers. I think they have to sell this place to pay their estate attorney.

  40. RealEstater Says:

    >>Here’s one for you RE and I wouldn’t even call it a shack. It’s over 3000sf in Cupertino. Probably even Monta Vista high. (I didn’t check.) Pretty views. All good except there are some power lines nearby, but it last sold for $1.32M. NOT a short sale; price just slashed from $1.6M to $999,950. I’d be tempted except for the pool.

    I agree. It’s an incredible price, if you can live with the massive power tower adjacent to the house. Check it on the aerial map — you can see it from space.

  41. RealEstater Says:

    Pralay,

    How is your stock portoflio doing? Based on your brilliant logic, I’m sure it’s in great shape?

  42. DreamT Says:

    Argh, RE you’re right, what a nasty-looking power tower. Someone forgot to think before building that house? I can’t imagine the city would have added this power line after construction.

  43. Pralay Says:

    How is your stock portoflio doing? Based on your brilliant logic, I’m sure it’s in great shape?
    ——–

    If anybody is faltering on logic here is Chuck Norris who is citing totally unrelated thing just because he cannot backup his own logic anymore.

    Oh, that’s just Chuck Norris! :)

  44. Pralay Says:

    I can’t imagine the city would have added this power line after construction.
    ———

    And I bet city added this power line within last six months – just for the purpose depreciating the price of this house. There got to be some bad blood between city officials and this poor homeowner.

  45. crossroads Says:

    you can’t really accuse him of dodging questions if you’re not going to answer that you know

  46. anon Says:

    “I agree. It’s an incredible price, if you can live with the massive power tower adjacent to the house. Check it on the aerial map — you can see it from space.”

    What do you care about a power tower near an investment property?

  47. nomadic Says:

    Is there an echo in here? I could have sworn I mentioned the power lines in my original post. Maybe it’s another server thing. It shows up on my screen.

    madhaus – it could be septic, especially with the semi-remote location. However, I’ve found redfin to be wrong on that before, so maybe not. What do you need more land for? The kids play ball? There’s a pool to keep them amused when it’s warm. Hehe, in the 3rd from last pic it looks like the top of a bomb shelter is sticking out of the grass. Or a short dog house???

    It’s open this weekend. Maybe I’ll go take a look for the sake of curiosity.

  48. SiO2 Says:

    Madhaus –
    you may already know this, the new 2008 API scores are out now. So check your favorite schools!

    Regarding investment – buying an SFH around here for investment seems like a really bad deal to me. Even if it cashflows, you are subject to the risk of a bad tenant. You can get a quad for not that much more than an SFH and rent out the units. It’s closer to cashflowing and you get some diversification in case one tenant flakes.

    Of course what do I know, investing in SFHs around here has not cashflowed for 15 years but I sure wish I had bought one in 1993!

  49. DreamT Says:

    nomadic – You mentioned power lines, but these are rather common everywhere (I only have to look at any of my neighbors’ backyard).
    Now the power tower on the satellite view is something else altogether.

  50. RealEstater Says:

    nomadic was hoping I would not notice such details…

  51. SiO2 Says:

    DreamT-
    There’s power lines, and there’s POWER LINES! Most older neighborhoods have power lines above the fence, but there’s a few places like Voss Ave that have POWER LINES, like near 85 in Saratoga, or between Blossom Hill Road and Los Gatos/Almaden in Los Gatos and Cambrian. In Saratoga you can get the triple whammy, POWER LINE, CA85, and the train tracks. There’s also a PG&E substation in Saratoga, you can hear the hum from the adjacent house.

    That’s one way to get into Saratoga for sub 1.5m, but not one I’ve been willing to do.

  52. RealEstater Says:

    Moral of the story: If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

  53. madhaus Says:

    Madhaus –
    you may already know this, the new 2008 API scores are out now. So check your favorite schools!

    SiO2, they’ve been out for a couple weeks, every score I’ve reported here since is 2008 growth API.

    Most of the better school districts are up a lot, proving that if people care about test scores, then schools will teach to the test. I heard a Cherry Chase mom complaining that they didn’t teach any science in 3rd grade because until May because it wasn’t on the test.

    You’d probably have no idea, but I actually despise those tests and excused my kids from taking it until they were in older grades.

    Did you know you have the right to not have your kids take the STAR test?

    Did you also know that the school district cannot tell you that you have the right? Excusing them is simple. Write the principal a letter asking that your child be excused, specify the test(s) you don’t want them to take, and give any reason you wish. They MUST excuse them, although some schools will push back awfully hard. Simply keep repeating that your child will not take the tests.

    The problem is that California gives you the right to excuse your child from the test, but No Child Left Behind punishes the school district if fewer than 95% of the population, or any subgroup of that population don’t take the test.

    Don’t get me started on how much I hate NCLB.

  54. RealEstater Says:

    madhaus,

    Runs in the family. Basically you guys cannot be put to the test! :-)

  55. anon Says:

    “Moral of the story: If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.”

    Oh, you mean like the myth that real estate doubles every 10 years?

  56. nomadic Says:

    Two things.

    1. You guys are obsessed with the power lines/tower/behemoth-overshadowing-the-house. If it’s a huge dealbreaker then why did someone pay $1.32M for this house a short time ago? Sale before that was $515k in 1993 – gotta double in price in 10 years, right? ;-)

    2. Taking a second aerial view, I see it’s too close to the Permanente mine for my taste. I’m surprised none of you piled on that. They blast a few times a week, there’s a lot of dust and tons (literally) of large trucks up and down Foothill from 280 to Steven’s Creek. Still love the proximity to Rancho San Antonio though.

  57. Herve Says:

    > Also, what’s with the rickroll removals (yours, plus mine in #4)?

    I know! I don’t know about yours, but mine was even cleverly disguised as a redfin link. Something like htlp://vvvvvv.redfin.com/CA/Palo-Alto/3270-W-BAYSHORE-Rd-94303/home/17318249

  58. Herve Says:

    Did anyone watch Walker (Texas Ranger?) on TV today? What did you think?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080925/ap_on_bi_ge/bush_markets

  59. Herve Says:

    > Moral of the story: If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

    You’re damn right.

  60. RealEstater Says:

    Pralay,

    I know that you want to avoid talking about stocks righ tnow, but I have good news for you. Your stock portoflio is doing great — compared to what it’ll be a year from now!

  61. RealEstater Says:

    >>Did anyone watch Walker (Texas Ranger?) on TV today? What did you think?

    My questions would be: Mr. Commander in Chief, how did you get us to this point? Are you asking for more money to solve another mess that was created under your watch?

  62. anon Says:

    …Just like your home.

    How comical that Herve would link your usual permabull drivel: “Didn’t you guys see the news on Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac? The nation’s mortgage/credit problems are solved now, and that’s why the stock market is ever so optimistic. One should be looking ahead instead of looking in the rear view mirror.” – RE

    So, our problems are over yet you can say with conviction that whatever stocks he may have are going to be less valuable?

  63. Herve Says:

    > How juvenile that Herve would link your usual permabull drivel

    There, fixed that for you.

  64. anon Says:

    Lol, juvenile or not you made a good and timely point.

  65. anon Says:

    Anyway, now that Bush is on the job, I’m sure we will be seeing nothing but good things from here on out!

  66. Herve Says:

    > My questions would be: Mr. Commander in Chief, how did you get us to this point?

    I’m no fan of Walker, but to his defense the Congress should have made sure this would not happen.

    That being said, do you still stand by your previous comments? All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds? (No Coleridge here, only Arouet)

  67. RealEstater Says:

    Guys,

    Looks like CA does not need to worry about its debt now. After all, the state budget deficit is only a drop in the bucket. Uncle Sam will always be there to bail us out!

  68. RealEstater Says:

    >>That being said, do you still stand by your previous comments? All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds?

    My comments were made before the current crisis, just as an UCLA Anderson study was done before the crisis, with the economists predicting no recession.
    Not sure what you’re trying to say with your second question.

  69. RealEstater Says:

    >>I’m no fan of Walker, but to his defense the Congress should have made sure this would not happen.

    Uh, do you know the jobs of the Federal Reserve vs. Congress? Did Congress slash the prime rate, thus allowing all the sub-prime stuff to happen?

  70. Herve Says:

    > My comments were made before the current crisis

    If we were playing Jeopardy*, I would then say “When did you say your previous comments?”. Now, try to come up with something where the answer would be “Do you still stand by your previous comments”? ;-)

    * Apologies for mentioning Jeopardy after a quote from Voltaire/Leibniz. Talk about a butterfly mind.

  71. RealEstater Says:

    Not sure if any of you caught it, but I find the following paragraph in Bush’s speech tonight to be incredibly ridiculous:

    >>First, how did our economy reach this point? Well, most economists agree that the problems we’re witnessing today developed over a long period of time. For more than a decade, a massive amount of money flowed into the United States from investors abroad because our country is an attractive and secure place to do business

    OK, what’s the read on this?
    #1, the problem started a long time ago, before I was President!
    #2, it’s the damn foreigners! They are investing too much money in us, because we are #1!

    LOL!!!

  72. Herve Says:

    > #2, it’s the damn foreigners! They are investing too much money in us, because we are #1!

    It’s taking the soccer fields problem to an international level! :-)

    Actually, the very first draft said “most economists agree that the problems we’re witnessing today started developing under the Clinton administration“.

  73. anon Says:

    “My comments were made before the current crisis, just as an UCLA Anderson study was done before the crisis, with the economists predicting no recession.”

    No sir, your comments were made during the crisis before the shit hit the fan. If you had even a sliver of common sense, you would realize that what you said was preposterous at that time.

    OBLIGATORY CHUCK NORRIS KNOCK-OFF:
    RE doesn’t stand by comments, RE draws arbitrary distinctions.

  74. Herve Says:

    > RE doesn’t stand by comments, RE draws arbitrary distinctions.

    RealEstater, Emperor of non sequitur.

  75. anon Says:

    herve regarding “Actually, the very first draft said “most economists agree that the problems we’re witnessing today started developing under the Clinton administration“.”

    How did you find that out? At least bush had a bit of tact – enough that he wouldn’t actually mention Clinton by name.

  76. anon Says:

    “RealEstater, Emperor of non sequitur.”

    Oh lord you got me rolling on that one.

  77. Herve Says:

    > How did you find that out?

    I made it up, it’s that easy! I would have added a rick roll to make it less serious but that would have made it too juvenile.

  78. nomadic Says:

    Uh, do you know the jobs of the Federal Reserve vs. Congress? Did Congress slash the prime rate, thus allowing all the sub-prime stuff to happen?

    Don’cha think there’s plenty of blame to go around? The Fed dropped the rates, the bankers ran wild, Congress ignored what was happening and didn’t regulate the situation. Even Mr. 20/20 Hindsight (Greenspan) made a few feeble/mild comments along the way. He has an anti-regulation mindset and his bias led him to do nothing else.

    Did any of you see the rant on YouTube from CSPAN last week? It’s priceless: (I PROMISE it isn’t a rick roll! It’s worth a peek.)
    http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=mbD62gNi9WE

  79. anon Says:

    LOL. I see you have been well trained in the Real Estater school of logic.

  80. RealEstater Says:

    nomadic,

    Thanks for sharing. That’s great!

  81. anon Says:

    Yes. What a wonderful video!

  82. RealEstater Says:

    >>No sir, your comments were made during the crisis before the shit hit the fan. If you had even a sliver of common sense, you would realize that what you said was preposterous at that time.

    My statement was appropriate at the time without advanced information of what was to transpire later. Many seasoned commentors adjusted their outlook after the latest round of events, such as this one:
    http://www.investorsinsight.com/blogs/forecasts_trends/archive/2008/09/23/uncle-sam-s-700-billion-toxic-securities-fund.aspx
    I see nothing wrong with doing that in light of extraordinary circumstances. Are you telling me you predicted what has happened?

  83. Herve Says:

    > http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=mbD62gNi9WE

    Just one question: why tw.youtube.com? Did you think it was going to be censored in the US?

    Really the American people got screwed: they get a $600 stimulus package while Mama’s boys get $700,000,000,000 :-)

  84. Renter4 Says:

    Looks like CA does not need to worry about its debt now. After all, the state budget deficit is only a drop in the bucket. Uncle Sam will always be there to bail us out!

    Aw, RE, you sound so sarcastic & bitter all of a sudden. Where’s my widdle permabubble ray of sunshine?

  85. Herve Says:

    > Aw, RE, you sound so sarcastic & bitter all of a sudden. Where’s my widdle permabubble ray of sunshine?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98P-gu_vMRc (not a rick roll)

  86. RealEstater Says:

    >>Don’cha think there’s plenty of blame to go around? The Fed dropped the rates, the bankers ran wild, Congress ignored what was happening and didn’t regulate the situation. Even Mr. 20/20 Hindsight (Greenspan) made a few feeble/mild comments along the way. He has an anti-regulation mindset and his bias led him to do nothing else.

    No, I don’t think there’s plenty of blame to go around. I think it was the failed policy at the Federal Reserve that led to the subsequent problems. If Mr. Greespan simply let the recession happen at the time, rather than trying to hide it by reducing the interest rate to nothing, then all the subsequent greed by banks and investors would have never had the chance to happen. They are making the same mistake again. Rather than let a downturn happen, they want to rescue this thing through government intervention. The American people must see through what Bush is doing: Postpone the issue to the next guy. Isn’t that when Greespan did to his successor?

  87. RealEstater Says:

    Renter4,

    I’m just putting things in perspective. All this time we were worried about the CA budget deficit. Now we realize there’s actually no problem at all. Just roll it into the mortgage backed securities market, and it’ll disappear from the radar under the government bail-out plan.

  88. RealEstater Says:

    …on second thought, Mr. Greenspan was good to me. I wouldn’t have gotten a 5.5% fixed rate and million dollar equity without his assistance.

  89. anon Says:

    I don’t know how to answer this. I’m pretty certain I’ve been here saying its “going to get worse” for a while. Did I predict that AIG would have problems? Absolutely not. You made that statement after it became absolutely clear that the mortgage giants were insolvent.

    Can you make any independent reasoning on your own, or are you able to do nothing more than regurgitate what you read?

    Suffice it to say that your statement (like most that you make) was stupid at the time, and you only look like an even bigger fool for defending it now.

  90. RealEstater Says:

    >>Suffice it to say that your statement (like most that you make) was stupid at the time, and you only look like an even bigger fool for defending it now.

    Am I defending it? I just told you in light of subsequent events the outlook is different!

  91. RealEstater Says:

    anon,

    If you have any more predictions, please tell us now! I give you another chance to prove your worth.

  92. anon Says:

    Gah, look at this:

    You dont’ think the overvaluing of the homes had anything to do with it? Or the loan brokers who peddled fraudulent loans because they had no interest in whether it was paid? Or the real estate agents who want to increase the sale price to get a larger comission? Or the stupid homedebtors who purchased homes for rediculous numbers banking on the ability to sell it at a later point in time for more with no consideration as to where the money would come from?

    This problem has countless sources. It’s not just the Fed’s fault.

  93. RealEstater Says:

    anon says,
    >>What do you care about a power tower near an investment property?

    Of course I care about the well being of my tenant. If he dies, how am I going to collect the rent?

  94. madhaus Says:

    Wow, Chuckie’s being even sillier than usual. Tell me what part of $62 trillion credit default swap market you don’t understand, RE.

    THAT is the reason the banks and investment houses are sinking. Blaming the Fed for lowering interest rates when there was more “value” in this unregulated market than total currency circulating is like stomping on an anthill after getting an H-bomb dropped on your city.

  95. RealEstater Says:

    anon says,
    >>This problem has countless sources. It’s not just the Fed’s fault.

    Read my post. One thing led to another. If Fed did not reduce the rate so much, the subsequent events would not have happened.

  96. RealEstater Says:

    Madhaus,

    Do you really need this explained to you?

    If interest rates were not kept artificially low, would so many people be tempted to buy homes? Would home prices in undeserving places shot up so high? Would banks be able to peddle these loan products if there was no interest in the house market?

  97. anon Says:

    “Of course I care about the well being of my tenant. If he dies, how am I going to collect the rent?”

    Find a new one. Bitter renters are a dime a dozen.

  98. anon Says:

    That may have been the root cause, but there are many other contributing factors. Fraud, greed and deceit ran rampant.

    You’re essentially saying it necessarily follows that a credit bubble happens like this when the interest rate is kept low. Do you really believe that?

  99. RealEstater Says:

    Guys, let me state this again: what this country needs is an old fashioned recession right now! We need all of you guys to endure at least 10 years of hard times.

  100. Herve Says:

    > If Fed did not reduce the rate so much […]

    Did rates really matter? Anyone was able to get a ninja loan with an artificially low rate and besides, one “could always refinance” (most common answer to any question to a broker).

  101. anon Says:

    “Guys, let me state this again: what this country needs is an old fashioned recession right now! We need all of you guys to endure at least 10 years of hard times.”

    I don’t know if you mean this as sarcasm, but I agree.

  102. anon Says:

    And, for the record, I have never once seen you post that. Maybe I missed it.

  103. RealEstater Says:

    Guys, let me state this again: what this country needs is an old fashioned recession right now! We need all of you guys to endure at least 10 years of hard times. Meaning…Start packing lunch boxes. Stay at home moms go back to work. No borrowing money to buy a car. No lattes in the morning. Save for 20% down payment before being allowed to buy a house. No wasting money on concerts, and no indulgence in useless toys with strings attached!

  104. Herve Says:

    > Maybe I missed it.

    Yes, you did. Guys, let me state this again: RealEstater is always right.

  105. anon Says:

    Ok, now you went overboard. Let me break this down:

    “Guys, let me state this again: what this country needs is an old fashioned recession right now! We need all of you guys to endure at least 10 years of hard times. Meaning…
    Start packing lunch boxes. (GOOD)
    Stay at home moms go back to work. (NOT GOOD)
    No borrowing money to buy a car. (OUTSTANDING)
    No lattes in the morning. (PERFECTLY FINE)
    Save for 20% down payment before being allowed to buy a house. (GOOD)
    No wasting money on concerts, and no indulgence in useless toys with strings attached! (This is stupid)

  106. anon Says:

    “Yes, you did. Guys, let me state this again: RealEstater is always right.”

    As we speak, the bits comprising the archive for this blog are rearranging themselves so as to be consistent with his statement.

  107. Herve Says:

    > Stay at home moms go back to work

    The lack of jobs is often a problem during a recession though ;-)

  108. madhaus Says:

    Chuckie drank so much Kool-aide that he’s got dihydrogen monoxide poisoning. Blaming the Fed for low interest rates is like blaming the horsewhip maker for horse apples.

  109. anon Says:

    Hard times my ass. Heaven forbid someone has to save some money before they indulge in something.

  110. RealEstater Says:

    Madhaus,

    >>Blaming the Fed for low interest rates is like blaming the horsewhip maker for horse apples.

    To my knowledge, there’s only one body in this country that can control interest rates.

  111. anon Says:

    Your presupposing the interest rates are the only source of the problem.

  112. Herve Says:

    > Chuckie drank so much Kool-aide that he’s got dihydrogen monoxide poisoning.

    madhaus, while we appreciate your comments, shouldn’t you be packing a lunch box for your other half and start looking for a job? And no more lattes in the morning (afternoon ok). I’m just saying… :-)

  113. RealEstater Says:

    Herve,

    She did it for quality of life reasons. I’m sure her quality of life is very good!

  114. anon Says:

    I’d like to ask you guys:

    Am i the only one who thinks that RE has the most overly developed entitlement complex of anyone on this blog?

  115. Pralay Says:

    I know that you want to avoid talking about stocks righ tnow, but I have good news for you. Your stock portoflio is doing great — compared to what it’ll be a year from now!
    ———

    The basic difference between Chuckie and me is that I don’t act like a stock market salesman. Chuckie does for real estate…like real estate agent…for every circumstance. How could anybody forget in his famous statement – “nation’s mortgage/credit problems are solved now”! Buy home NOW! We’re all clear for take-off.

  116. Herve Says:

    > Am i the only one who thinks that RE has the most overly developed entitlement complex of anyone on this blog?

    I heard they wanted RealEstater for one of these ads. There is RealEstater. And there is the rest of us.

  117. madhaus Says:

    Re #113: You sound bitter.

  118. Pralay Says:

    Am i the only one who thinks that RE has the most overly developed entitlement complex of anyone on this blog?
    ——–

    You are so amazingly ignorant! You are describing only one “overly developed” aspect of him. It’s like saying Pacasso’s only achievement is Boy with a Pipe painting.
    Chuckie has too many overly developed things – a frequent flyer account with overly developed miles, overly developed porsche, home with overly developed equity, portfolio with overly developed energy stocks, a management class job with overly developed bonus in the middle of the year, overly developed trophy wife to do laundry and most importantly – an overly developed magical power to turn on A/C in Foothill Park restroom.

  119. Pralay Says:

    But life is not perfect. Chuckie still can’t get a BBQ table in Palo Alto parks – even after unfair advantange to Palo Alto residents. :(

  120. anon Says:

    “I heard they wanted RealEstater for one of these ads. There is RealEstater. And there is the rest of us.”

    Yes, he is truly a man of style and grace. (thx dt)

    Dihydrogen monoxide, huh? I heard that stuff can be lethal in high doses! Chuck Norris’ buddy Bruce Lee used to say one must emulate it.

    You know what they say: Everything in moderation.

  121. RealEstater Says:

    >>portfolio with overly developed energy stocks

    That you got totally wrong. Energy stocks were dumped right after 7/4, which in my mind marks the peak of the summer driving season each year.

  122. RealEstater Says:

    Pralay,

    You missed the most overly developed aspect of my life right now — my vacation balance. If it weren’t for the fact I’m currently leading a mega project, I should be taking the next month and half off, and enjoy the kind of life Madhaus takes for granted.

  123. RealEstater Says:

    Madhaus,

    You’re damn right I’m bitter. Why did God give me so much responsibility, and yet let a stay-at-home mom hire a cleaning lady? No fair!

  124. DreamT Says:

    Might we conclude that RealEstater’s contributions to burbed are still an underdeveloped part of his life? He never ceases to amaze.
    And I hereby expose “No fair” as another spoof, from Calimero this time. Now we know how RealEstater looks like…

  125. anon Says:

    LOL, I don’t know about that one. I’d venture to say its pretty overdeveloped as well. In fact, it takes Pralay, you, MH, herve, etc posting just to mop up his BS.

    I like the pic, but for some reason the image I had involved a larger beer belly and a Hawaiian shirt.

  126. nomadic Says:

    RE #123. madhaus has her domestic situation under control. :-)

    Besides, RE, you work for the FF miles. If it bothers you so much, make a trade-off (just like madhaus had to do) and quit your job. Don’t be a whiner.

    Can y’all believe we actually had some agreement here momentarily when the discussion turned to people saving money and spending within their means? Of course, getting people to actually do that would virtually require a cultural revolution…

  127. bob Says:

    Holy Crap! I can’t believe RE just said that we all need to be fiscally responsible. But RE… if people were fiscally responsible, RE in the BA would probably be about 40% less than it is today. You really want that?

  128. RealEstater Says:

    >>Holy Crap! I can’t believe RE just said that we all need to be fiscally responsible.

    I have always told people to be fiscally responsible. For examples, I told people to ignore jumbo loans above $720K; I told people to get 30 year fixed mortgages, and I never told people to play any games with mortgages. My position has not changed in that regard.

    >>if people were fiscally responsible, RE in the BA would probably be about 40% less than it is today.

    I doubt it. Prices in the RBA are supported by strong fundamentals. It’s those other undeserving places that have problems.

  129. nomadic Says:

    RE, you’ll have to revise your “advice” after next Wednesday. Doesn’t the temporary jumbo level go to the new permanent $600k limit then?

    That $720k thing is silly anyway. That’s a post-bubble fabrication. I bet most (if not all) of your neighbors who bought in the last five years had a mortgage balance over $417k.

  130. steve Says:

    @bob, if, by fiscally responsible, you mean able to afford their houses, then, so far, so good in the RBA.

    if, instead, you mean only willing to pay what the houses *should* be worth instead of market price, then diamonds, coke, trophy wives and CEOs would all be more affordable too.

  131. Renter4 Says:

    >Why did God give me so much responsibility, and yet let a stay-at-home mom hire a cleaning lady?

    Because you, my friend, are not a Trophy Wife. Them’s the breaks.

    Why *can’t* you hire a cleaning co? We do.

    >I doubt it. Prices in the RBA are supported by strong fundamentals. It’s those other undeserving places that have problems.

    Watch out, it’s starting to sound ironic again.

  132. Renter4 Says:

    >so far, so good in the RBA.

    You could be right. 2009 will tell.

  133. RealEstater Says:

    >>Why *can’t* you hire a cleaning co? We do.

    As I shared before, I use a cleaning service, but I have a full time job!

  134. nomadic Says:

    It’s the old “quality of life” thing again. My sister has two kids, no job and has a cleaning woman come twice a week. Once you have the money, it all depends on where you want to blow your cash. Oh! Or a friend of mine works, has no kids (lives alone with a dog) and has the 2x/week set up too.

    Seems like kind of a waste to me. Cleaners every two weeks works for me just fine. But we aren’t too messy and I prefer to do my own laundry.

  135. Pralay Says:

    If it weren’t for the fact I’m currently leading a mega project, I should be taking the next month and half off,
    ———

    It’s very very unfortunate to see that a real estate investor, who spends good amount of time posting comments in burbed, has to go through the headache of “leading a mega project” for the purpose of getting paystubs, frequent flyer mileage and health insurance (especially when spouse is working fulltime and family can be covered from spouse’s insurance). Poor guy!

  136. Pralay Says:

    Might we conclude that RealEstater’s contributions to burbed are still an underdeveloped part of his life? He never ceases to amaze.
    ———-

    You mean overly developed “underdeveloped part of his life”?

    ———-
    And I hereby expose “No fair” as another spoof, from Calimero this time. Now we know how RealEstater looks like…
    ———-

    LOL! Not only we know how Chuckie looks like, we also know that he lives in a house with “undesirable” dull wall color with lots of scratches and dents.

  137. madhaus Says:

    Seems like kind of a waste to me. Cleaners every two weeks works for me just fine. But we aren’t too messy and I prefer to do my own laundry.

    Um, nomadic, you don’t have any kids, right? Because if you did, you would not be asking why your sister needs a cleaner twice a week.

    Now, am I hallucinating, or is Chuckie now complaining that it’s not fair that I’m a trophy wife? Or is he complaining that his wife won’t let him quit his job? Because this is very simple. He can own a house in Palo Alto, or he can have one spouse stay home with the kids. That’s called setting priorities. Chuckie worships at the font of conspicuous consumption so no idyllic life for his kids. They don’t get to go home until the workday’s over for their parents.

    Now, there are lots of families where both parents have to work just to keep a roof over their heads, and I do not begrudge them their decision for a second. But nobody put a gun to Chuckie’s head and told him he had to trade up to 94301. He could easily sell it, buy something in 94087 or maybe even 94040 with a small mortgage just for the writeoff, and presto, he can stay home with the kids. He might even learn how to play guitar, too.

    But you see, that involves deciding that some other choices are more important than where he lives.

  138. Pralay Says:

    and presto, he can stay home with the kids.
    ————

    Or entertain us more in burbed.com. :)

  139. nomadic Says:

    madhaus, I don’t want to start a debate. But with two kids at school all day and Mom at home… Why/how does the house get so dirty so fast? I easily see weekly, but it 2x still seems like a lot.

    Maybe it’s just my bias seen through the lens of family dynamics.

  140. madhaus Says:

    nomadic, I had no trouble keeping the house neat with no kids. None. We did not hire cleaners until we had the first baby. Then, no time whatsoever for anything, and the house quickly became a wreck.

    Why does the house get messier with kids? Because you spend so much of your time taking care of the kids, you have less time to take care of the house (or do anything else). And as you’ve noticed, I’ve got higher priorities than taking care of the house.

    Okay, which one do you want me to play, “Autumn Leaves” or “Lick My Love Pump”?

  141. RealEstater Says:

    Madhaus,

    You’re back to the zip discussion. I already told you our mortgage can be paid off if we choose to, so house payment is not much of a factor in our life style.

    The choice is really between whether you want to build up your savings in your best earning years, or if you want to be like millions of Americans who have to struggle with money later in life, or cannot retire.

  142. RealEstater Says:

    >>We did not hire cleaners until we had the first baby. Then, no time whatsoever for anything, and the house quickly became a wreck.

    Aren’t those babies grown up by now? What’s the excuse now?

    >>Why does the house get messier with kids? Because you spend so much of your time taking care of the kids, you have less time to take care of the house (or do anything else).

    Give me a break. If you don’t have a full time job, that is not such an all consuming work. Think about it, even Britney can raise 2 kids!

  143. madhaus Says:

    Looks like Chuckie is unwilling to sell his overpriced house but will still complain about “having” to work. Boo flipping hoo!

  144. crossroads Says:

    >>The choice is really between whether you want to build up your savings in your best earning years, or if you want to be like millions of Americans who have to struggle with money later in life, or cannot retire.

    how you can say that with a straight face, and then people to spend all of their income on a house in the real bay area? if you spend all of your income on a house you have no savings and cannot retire.

  145. anon Says:

    “Looks like Chuckie is unwilling to sell his overpriced house but will still complain about “having” to work.”

    Inconsistent statements from our resident permabull? The hell you say!

  146. RealEstater Says:

    crossroads,

    Paying for a mortgage is equivalent to a long term, disciplined saving’s plan. As with 401K, the earlier you start, the better. As a person gets older, mortgage will become a smaller portion of the person’s income. The opposite is true for the renter, since rent rises with inflation. Madhaus is a prime example. Her mortgage is lower than most people’s rent today. As home price appreciates over the long term, the home owner will be able to build up significant equity by retirement, where as the renter will have nothing.

  147. anon Says:

    SQUAK SQUAK buck buck. You keep parroting the same thing. That only works if

    1) You do not intend to move
    2) Home prices actually do go up.

    Otherwise, it’s just ‘forced savings.’

    Do you understand that there is an entire generation of home buyers in Japan that are locked into their current homes because they owe more on their home than they could sell it for even 15 years after their property bubble?

  148. nomadic Says:

    RE, Britney lost custody of her kids.

  149. anon Says:

    And they will still grow up to be white trash. Just like their mother.

  150. Pralay Says:

    Do you understand that there is an entire generation of home buyers in Japan that are locked into their current homes because they owe more on their home than they could sell it for even 15 years after their property bubble?
    ——–

    You mean those millionaires? Millionaires who became millionaires by virtue of being “owners” of million dollar homes which nobody willing to buy in million dollars?

  151. Pralay Says:

    RE, Britney lost custody of her kids.
    ———

    Another reason to be a homeowner in RBA. Even if you lose custody of your kids, you still have your home in prestigious zipcode where you can water your lawn and raise grass. Grass is better than kids – if it is RBA.

  152. anon Says:

    “You mean those millionaires? Millionaires who became millionaires by virtue of being “owners” of million dollar homes which nobody willing to buy in million dollars?”

    Yes. Those are precisely the people to which I am referring. The description is arbitrary. We could just as well call them billionaires, trillionaires, millionaires, astronauts, or murderers.

    It doesn’t take a million dollars to claim you’re worth that.

  153. RealEstater Says:

    anon,

    Are you a self-proclaimed expert on Japan? When was the last time you visited there? Are you saying their financial structure is analagous to ours?

    I have no comment about Japan, since I’m not close enough to the dynamics of that market.

  154. RealEstater Says:

    >>That only works if
    1) You do not intend to move
    2) Home prices actually do go up.

    The whole point of move-up is to roll your equity into a bigger home, and build more equity. I’ve done it, and I’m not sure what your issue is.

    As for #2, doubling every 10 years is not good enough for you? Compare that to Pralay’s stock account, and you’ll be a believer.

  155. Rocket Says:

    There is another variation of the move-up, stay in your original home long enough to save the down payment for the move-up place and then rent your original house.

    Now you have the move-up place and an income property.

  156. Pralay Says:

    As for #2, doubling every 10 years is not good enough for you?
    ———–

    If Chuckie said it doubles in every 10 years, it got to be true.

  157. DreamT Says:

    “Are you saying their financial structure is analagous to ours?”
    RealEstater – Are you a self-proclaimed expert on Pralay’s, madhaus’ and other folks’ finances? If not, why do you havecomments about their situation and suggestions about what they could do or ought to try?

  158. RealEstater Says:

    >>Are you a self-proclaimed expert on Pralay’s, madhaus’ and other folks’ finances?

    All I’ve done here is to explain the fundamental principles. It’s a far cry from offering expert analysis.

  159. RealEstater Says:

    Rocket says,

    >>There is another variation of the move-up, stay in your original home long enough to save the down payment for the move-up place and then rent your original house. Now you have the move-up place and an income property.

    Agree in principle. However, sometimes you cannot wait that long. For example, you may have school aged children and need to make the switch ASAP.

  160. anon Says:

    “All I’ve done here is to explain the fundamental principles. It’s a far cry from offering expert analysis.”

    No, all you do here is parrot the same garbage that created this bubble in the first place. You mistakenly assume that because you live in Palo Alto, you know something about economics.

    Look here:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/25/business/yourmoney/25japan.html?pagewanted=all

    “Some economists say that there are probably millions of people like Mr. Nakashima, trying to make the best of life in homes that are distant from work and for which they grossly overpaid. “There is a whole generation of homebuyers stuck out in far suburbs,” said Atsushi Nakajima, chief economist at the research arm of the Mizuho Financial Group in Tokyo.”

    This is not a sarcastic statement: Bob understands more about fundamental economic principals than you do.

  161. DreamT Says:

    Based on how convincing and disinterested bob has been, I wouldn’t place bets on bob’s comprehension level. His posts mostly read like a listener’s digest.
    RealEstater may be wrong about many things but his logic is cunning whereas bob’s is naive.

  162. DreamT Says:

    I just can’t help it. Whenever I see a reference to bob, I have to post and shoot.
    “Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius”
    (“Kill them all, God will recognize His own.” – Arnaud Amaury, 1209)

  163. anon Says:

    I don’t know about that. RE hasn’t done anything different than follow conventional wisdom regarding buying a home. He bought, traded up, worked his 9-5 for 20 years…

    I’d never view his logic as ‘cunning.’

  164. DreamT Says:

    I was referring to the rationalizations he has been posting on this board rather than his lucky choices of yore, especially the personal attacks he uses when he’s against the wall. You’ve got to respect someone who throws maxi-pads and French women references to get out of a losing point.

  165. madhaus Says:

    DreamT, Why would have I have to respect someone with such low behavior? You make it sound like siding with RE or bob is an either-or choice, but I don’t really respect either of them. One makes personal attacks when people ignore his advice, the other delivers incoherent monologues without ever taking in a thing from the general discussion. Both show the failure of half-duplex transmission.

    anon is correct in noting that RE’s advice is what brought on the housing bubble: insisting that you could not lose by investing everything you had into a house, because it’s guaranteed to double in ten years. Except I’ve already proven that that are many time periods and many places where that isn’t true at all. In the meantime, ninja loan availability led to more and more people making less and less responsible loans, driving up home prices. With the collapse of the bottom 2-3 rungs on the real estate ladder, the so-called RBA will soon be high, dry, and passed by.

    I’m going to make a claim: Any house bought in Palo Alto at market price in 2007 or later will not double in 10 years. It will be worth less than double. Anyone sane care to dispute that?

    As to Japanese house millionaires, they’re still millionaires. I’m sure all those overpriced home are worth at least a million yen.

    Finally does anyone else notice the insanity of RE on the one hand chastizing me for not trading up to Palo Alto when I could have, yet on the other hand extolling me for having bought a house and staying in it (thus insuring a mortgage lower than rent)? Which is more financially responsible, piling on as much debt as possible or living within one’s means?

    I was just talking with someone who told me he paid off his house completely. He’s about 5 years younger than me. I don’t meet too many people around here who manage that.

  166. nomadic Says:

    anon, about #160… I’ve read that article before and found it very interesting.

    Do you know what it is about Japan that kept people like Mr. Nakashima from walking away from his home? Is it the cultural sense of honor, or differences in the laws relating to debt, or something else entirely? I don’t know the answer but maybe someone here does.

  167. DreamT Says:

    To nomadic’s inquire “Why would have I have to respect someone with such low behavior?”, DreamT points out that “Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence” (Oscar the cat)

  168. DreamT Says:

    Sorry nomadic, I meant madhaus’ inquire.
    Madhaus, you should know by now that I “side” with neither, same as most sensible posters here.

  169. madhaus Says:

    I think the error you’re making is that RE doesn’t really do sarcasm. Instead he does sarchasm: the wide, gaping open pit between how funny he thinks he is and how foolish he actually is.

  170. anon Says:

    “Finally does anyone else notice the insanity of RE on the one hand chastising me for not trading up to Palo Alto when I could have, yet on the other hand extolling me for having bought a house and staying in it (thus insuring a mortgage lower than rent)?”

    Absolutely. His posts show time and time again that he is an idiot.

    Nomadic, I really don’t know why and wondered the same thing as you as I read that article. I know our bankruptcy rules tend to be pretty lax compared to many other places (they were recently tightened) and from what I know of Japanese culture they tend to have a greater view of personal responsibility.

    The (extreme) American view is that “I deserve to profit because I bought a house. If I can’t profit, the bank can take the loss. I’m out.”

  171. anon Says:

    “Instead he does sarchasm: the wide, gaping open pit between how funny he thinks he is and how foolish he actually is.”

    Did you just make that up? That is too rich.

    I’m still not convinced RE thinks he’s funny…I think he thinks he’s correct.

    Oh, and DT, you meant inquiry ;)

  172. burbed Says:

    I believe that in Japan, the debt automatically rolls to your future generation – kind of like Prop 13 here.

  173. madhaus Says:

    I wish I could take credit for making up “sarchasm,” I didn’t, but the definition I read for it went the other way. It was the wide open pit between a well-delivered punch-line and the dim bulb who fails to understand it.

    Speaking of dim bulbs, did you know there are at least 6 answers to “How many bass players does it take to change a light bulb?” But here’s another one instead:

    A drummer and a bassist jump into a taxicab at the same time. Which one is the musician?

    Hey, where the heck is burbed? I want to give him a piece of my mind for removing my rickrolls.

  174. DreamT Says:

    madhaus – I meant that respect was a sarcastic attempt on my part… :P moving on…
    anon – Thanks, I was playing games with the spell checker and got outwitted (it didn’t like my ‘inquirie’ as usual). And you’re absolutely right, RE thinks he’s correct. So does bob. That’s the fun of it all.

  175. DreamT Says:

    burbed – Sounds like a great incentive to have lots of children (split the debt) and address Japan’s demographic problem. Natalist policy at its best!

  176. Pralay Says:

    Finally does anyone else notice the insanity of RE on the one hand chastizing me for not trading up to Palo Alto when I could have, yet on the other hand extolling me for having bought a house and staying in it (thus insuring a mortgage lower than rent)? Which is more financially responsible, piling on as much debt as possible or living within one’s means?
    ———

    It’s very simple. If people like you don’t try to move up at PA, the demand there does not go up. If demand does not go up, you don’t make Chuckie wealthier in terms of home value.
    It has nothing to do with financial responsibility. When Chuckie talks about financial resonsibility it actually means “please prop up my equity”.

  177. DreamT Says:

    Ain’t it cunning? :)

  178. madhaus Says:

    I thought it was juvenile.

  179. anon Says:

    ah wil tel u wut.

    teh onli ting ah respekt RE fur is de fakt dat he kontinuez to ashert his korrektness dispite teh fakt dat he is so de wrong.

    o n bi de way
    rikrollz r part of de gayme kalled teh intarnet. sensurshipp iz bad.

  180. bob Says:

    Pig latin!

  181. madhaus Says:

    bob is so cute when he thinks he knows what’s going on. That is not pig latin, bob, it’s a mix of txtchat, L337, and lolcat.

  182. bob Says:

    Mafhaus,
    Guess what? The only reason I wrote ” Pig latin” was because for some reason, I couldn’t post a previous comment. It was giving me an error. Pig latin was the first thing that popped in my mind… versus the tried and true: “test”.

    So nope- I wasn’t aware that there was something special about the gibberish above. So yes- you’re right. I didn’t know what it was simply because I didn’t read it with any detail.

  183. DreamT Says:

    Thanks bob, now we know how to circumvent browser errors. We just have to post “Pig Latin” followed by an exclamation mark!

  184. RealEstater Says:

    Wo wo wo…just saw these posts. What’s with all the personal attacks? Can’t we all get along?

    Looks like the “angry renter” and “angry no-able-to-move-up buyer” syndromes are taking its toll!

  185. anon Says:

    Now, now, RE.

    The attacks are on your statements, not who you are as a person.

    Rules of the game have changed: It’s “gleeful renter” syndrome now.

  186. anon Says:

    While I’m at it, here’s a few more:

    They’re not making any more fools.

    For every year that goes by, your property depreciates 10%.

  187. RealEstater Says:

    Guys,

    It’s been said that Bob is the opposite of me. If you look at the outcomes, it would seem to confirm that.

    One person owns a house. The other is a perpetual renter.
    One person lives in the RBA where overbiddings are still common. The other lives on the other side of the Bay where prices are being slashed and homes sit on the market.
    One person lives close to jobs, the other person has to endure a long commute in a crappy car.

    Now, the question is, which side of the fence do you want to be on?

  188. Pralay Says:

    Now, the question is, which side of the fence do you want to be on?
    ———

    All I can say that I don’t want to be in side of a racist narcissist real estate agent.

  189. Pralay Says:

    It’s been said that Bob is the opposite of me.
    ——

    I don’t think it has been said. As far I remember someone said that you and Bob are exactly same but have opposite viewpoints.

  190. anon Says:

    Neither. I’m happily dancing the fence between the two.

    Remember RE, you are older and were here before Bob. Had you arrived later, you would be singing a different tune.

    On your middle manager salary, its doubtful you could afford to buy your own home at its current “market value.” And by “market value,” I don’t mean what you think its worth. I mean what it would sell for right now.

    Maybe with a couple years depreciation, might be able to afford your own home…?

  191. Pralay Says:

    On your middle manager salary
    ——-

    Do you really think that Chuckie (who demonstrated only one skill so far – visiting “frenzy” open houses in RBA) is a “middle manager” hitech guy “leading mega project”?

  192. bob Says:

    RE,
    Seriously. I’m perfectly happy with my situation. But it seems to me that your life’s meaning is tied to your house. That and its supposed value. That and maybe your little sports car. There’s a lot more to life then that my friend.

  193. RealEstater Says:

    Pralay,

    >>All I can say that I don’t want to be in side of a racist narcissist real estate agent.

    What? More personal attacks out of the blue?

    >>As far I remember someone said that you and Bob are exactly same but have opposite viewpoints.

    Uh….how is that different from what I said?

    >>Do you really think that Chuckie (who demonstrated only one skill so far – visiting “frenzy” open houses in RBA) is a “middle manager” hitech guy “leading mega project”?

    I think what’s been demonstrated so far is that everything I’ve said is true; I’ve never made up a single thing.

  194. anon Says:

    Yes.

    MEGA–PROJECT. That’s somewhere between a kiloproject and a gigaproject, right?

    I’d imagine his specialty is deciprojets. And that’s not a power, its a concatenation of decimation and projects.

  195. anon Says:

    “I think what’s been demonstrated so far is that everything I’ve said is true; I’ve never made up a single thing.”

    Dammit, I thought we had progressed from this. First it was everything, then it was many things, now its everything again.

  196. RealEstater Says:

    >>On your middle manager salary, its doubtful you could afford to buy your own home at its current “market value.”

    Anon, that is the beauty of my financial strategy! While most people are wasting energy climbing the corporate ladder, I am working toward financial independence. I look at each person is as the CEO of his own family. That is where real success is measured!

  197. anon Says:

    “Anon, that is the beauty of my financial strategy!”

    No, that is a byproduct of your having been in the bay area for longer than Bob.

  198. anon Says:

    Or, more generally, “long enough.”

    Put another way, you bought when you could and can stay here. Congratulations.

  199. Pralay Says:

    Uh….how is that different from what I said?
    ———

    That’s why you are New Chuck Norris, who simply don’t understand the difference.

    Let me explain in simpler way: You and your twin brother could be same (both racists, both narcissists, both real estate agents) but still have different viewpoints on certain issue.

  200. anon Says:

    But, to be clear, there’s no strategy here.

    You bought a home and paid for it. It won’t pay you unless you sell it, rent it, or leverage it. In order to cash out you need to leave the RBA and you’ll have no respect. (by your own admission)

    In the meantime, it will continue to depreciate and require repairs.

  201. Pralay Says:

    What? More personal attacks out of the blue?
    ———

    It would be a personal attack only if it was not true. Narcissist? You don’t have to go that far. Post #187.
    Do you want to me provide links for racist part?

  202. anon Says:

    Or, the similarity could lie in the fact that both are adamantly certain that one course of action is the correct one.

    “Anon, that is the beauty of my financial strategy!”

    I love it – you write this with such exuberance as if I have now proved your point.

  203. Pralay Says:

    I think what’s been demonstrated so far is that everything I’ve said is true
    ———

    Define “demonstrated”.

  204. anon Says:

    “Anon, that is the beauty of my financial strategy!”

    One more thing, if you can’t afford your home, the worker bees can’t afford it, who can?

  205. Pralay Says:

    But it seems to me that your life’s meaning is tied to your house. That and its supposed value. That and maybe your little sports car. There’s a lot more to life then that my friend.
    ——

    I am curious if anybody here would like a neighbor who brags about his Porsche, “management class”, equity, prestigious zipcode and “leading mega project”.

  206. RealEstater Says:

    >>Or, the similarity could lie in the fact that both are adamantly certain that one course of action is the correct one.

    Yes, but that’s irrelevant. I’ve already shown you through the outcomes which person is ACTUALLY correct.

  207. RealEstater Says:

    >>Narcissist? You don’t have to go that far. Post #187.

    Once again, the post was to demonstrate the different outcomes. Aren’t you a bit too sensitive about what you have not been able to achieve either?

    >>Do you want to me provide links for racist part?

    All you’re going to prove is that you are a liar.

  208. RealEstater Says:

    >>You bought a home and paid for it. It won’t pay you unless you sell it, rent it, or leverage it.

    What about the fact that you do not have to pay any rent?

  209. anon Says:

    “Once again, the post was to demonstrate the different outcomes. Aren’t you a bit too sensitive about what you have not been able to achieve either?”

    All you achieved, sir, is arriving in the Bay Area before Pralay, bob, etc. Likely, you were here before the mid 90s at the latest.

    May I ask when you arrived in this fine dumpster known as the bay area?

  210. bob Says:

    Re,
    The game is all about money… right? So if yours comes from the eventual sale of your house, which I assume means you move somewhere else cheaper to extract this value, then how is this any different from a person who rents the same house and saves and has as much as the homeowner who later sells? There is no difference. The assumption you’re making is that making money with appreciated home equity is superior. But if we remove the names of investments, whether it be stocks or RE, they turn out similar, except that stocks have a 3-6% higher annual return, but basically pretty close.

    So the question is how is paying for a mortgage versus renting the same property given the fact that the cheaper rent compensates for the more expensive mortgage superior? That you can paint the walls any color?

    The truth is that its all purely mentality and nothing more.

  211. anon Says:

    “What about the fact that you do not have to pay any rent?”

    You pay property tax.

  212. Pralay Says:

    No, that is a byproduct of your having been in the bay area for longer than Bob.
    ——

    I guess that was another mega project with mega financial strategy – just being born early. :)

  213. anon Says:

    Timing baby, its all about timing.

    RE haz it.

  214. Pralay Says:

    Once again, the post was to demonstrate the different outcomes. Aren’t you a bit too sensitive about what you have not been able to achieve either?
    ———

    No, that post just demonstrates that you have a Porsche and a home. And saying it this matter by comparing with another person – that’s a poster child of narcissists.

  215. DreamT Says:

    Is RealEstater really that old? A tech lead in his 40s? I guess it makes sense if you think the Porsche and trophy wife were a mid-life crisis thing.

  216. Pralay Says:

    I’ve already shown you through the outcomes which person is ACTUALLY correct.
    ——-

    What outcome? I can see only one outcome here – Chuckie entertains pretty well.

  217. Pralay Says:

    A tech lead in his 40s?
    ——–

    Damn! It’s was leading, not managing. :(

  218. DreamT Says:

    Well there’s leading, and supervising, and managing. In my opinion unless you have control on a budget, you’re not managing but merely supervising. If your performance reviews have no impact on salary and bonuses, then you’re merely leading. Feel free to disagree.

  219. Pralay Says:

    I guess it makes sense if you think the Porsche and trophy wife were a mid-life crisis thing.
    ———-

    LOL!
    Porsche I understand – a desire for owning a machine that would transform into a time-machine someday and take him 20 years back. Trophy wife? I thought that is 50-60 thing (e.g Donald Trump).

  220. DreamT Says:

    Pralay – You’re right, he cannot be that old. With such a winning financial strategy, he’d be in Atherton or Woodside by that age.

  221. RealEstater Says:

    Ok, won’t address the juvenile stuff, but I will respond to the following:

    >>Timing baby, its all about timing.

    It’s absolutely not about timing. Anyone who has been here for a while can attest to my long held position that you should not try to time the market. When I bought in 2003, it was also not easy. The “price is too high” stuff was there. The “we are in recession” stuff was there. The “you will lose your job to outsourcing” stuff was there. Each moment has its challenges, and there are many unpredictable factors, but over the long term, real estate is a winning and low risk investment. Since you need a place to live anyways, it’s also as effortless as it gets.

  222. DreamT Says:

    Chuckie, your rationalization about how real estate is both “not easy” and “effortless” strikes me as… juvenile.

  223. RealEstater Says:

    DreamT,

    Conditions were not easy. Living in the house is effortless. Where’s the conflict?

  224. burbed Says:

    If your performance reviews have no impact on salary and bonuses, then you’re merely leading. Feel free to disagree.

    By definition, don’t all performance reviews impact salary and bonus?

  225. DreamT Says:

    burbed – You’d be surprised:) You can have this disconnect when the lowest level of “management” has no access to salary information (not at all uncommon) and when bonuses are decided following a separate formula or department, which has the authority to override performance grades (horrible but, yes it exists).

  226. Pralay Says:

    Ok, won’t address the juvenile stuff,
    ——–

    Now, that’s so UnrealEstatic and Unchuck-Norrisish.

  227. anon Says:

    wait a second. You bought in 2003 and believe you have amassed a million in equity since then?

  228. DreamT Says:

    RE – Juvenile, not conflictual.
    Incidentally your post demonstrates that it was merely a perception that conditions were not easy. Rates were actually at their lowest and it was very easy to get into real estate at the time. Also your “it’s also as effortless” refers to the previous sentence’s “real estate is […]” not “you need a place to live”. The conflict is probably in your command of English grammar.

  229. Pralay Says:

    Conditions were not easy. Living in the house is effortless. Where’s the conflict?
    ————-

    Hmmm, I never knew living could so divorced from condition! Perfect analogy would be living in Galveston, TX. Outside weather condition could be uneasy, but living inside house is effortless.

    Now replace weather condition with economic/financial condition.

  230. DreamT Says:

    Pralay – It goes to show how little you know about living inside a house. As long as, like Chuckie, you pay your cook, gardener, cleaning lady, babysitter, etc. and collects your humongous bonuses, living IS effortless. You better take note of Chuckie’s example and admit that if living in a house isn’t effortless for you, you’re doing something very wrong (like, not having a trophy wife or a Porsche)

  231. Pralay Says:

    You better take note of Chuckie’s example and admit that if living in a house isn’t effortless for you, you’re doing something very wrong (like, not having a trophy wife or a Porsche)
    ———

    I am paying attention. Most importantly I would like to have Chuck Norris style effortless power to turn A/C anywhere anytime. That would be so cool…literally.

  232. madhaus Says:

    So nope- I wasn’t aware that there was something special about the gibberish above. So yes- you’re right. I didn’t know what it was simply because I didn’t read it with any detail.

    Yup, bob & Chuckie are kind of the same person, neither reads anything with any detail.

    You know that joke how George HW Bush was born on third base and thought he hit a triple? Chuckie was walked 3 times, and thought he hit a triple too. The best part was when he stole second.

    From third.

  233. RealEstater Says:

    >>By definition, don’t all performance reviews impact salary and bonus?

    They do if the company is any good. However, performance reviews are overrated. In the larger picture your salary increase and bonus have little impact on your life style. That’s not where the money is made. Money is made when wealth is accumulated through leverage and steady long term appreciation. The main purpose of a job is to be a launching pad for your real estate investments (plus healthcare and airline miles, of course). What most people do is to circle around the job itself, getting real excited if they got an incremental raise. That’s why their financial status stays in the same place even though they are advancing in the corproate ladder.

  234. madhaus Says:

    Okay, let’s play Who Do You Want On the Other Side of Your Fence!

    Let’s meet our contestants.

    #1 is very eager to be your neighbor, as long as your house is in the right zip code. He wants you to admire his equity, his sports car, his SUVs, and his stock portfolio. He is most proud of where his house is. He can be your neighbor, provided you move over to his neighborhood, because he sure as heck isn’t moving to yours! But if you do move in, he’ll be congratulating you every day for your shrewd business decision, because that really means he’s congratulating himself too! Best of all, he’ll be doing it many, many times per day!

    #2 really doesn’t care if you’re his neighbor or not. If you move in, he’ll tell you all about how much better it is in Tennessee, where everyone knows everyone else, where you can buy a nice house without having to knock yourself out, and where neighbors are a lot nicer than the ones here. Like you. #2 is renting his house but will spend lots of time showing you all the improvements he’s made to the place. He’ll also let you know, in great detail, how much less he’s paying than you, whether you rent or own. Oh, and if you own, he’s also going to make fun of you for overpaying. But don’t worry, you won’t see too much of him, he spends a lot of time commuting to his job 43 miles away.

    #3 could be your neighbor if you want to live in a good school district. She knows the API scores to every school around, yet thinks school testing is a right-wing conspiracy to destroy public education. Hope you like alternative rock music because you’ll be hearing it at all hours. Everyone in her family plays something, so you’ll hear their renditions too, you lucky stiff! Don’t want to hear about school scores? No problem, whenever you have a conversation with her, she’ll be staring behind your left shoulder and writing song lyrics based on random things you say. What’s worse, she’ll sing ‘em. Hope you don’t care for talking sports, not a single person in her house cares about them or wants to hear about them. If you mention a sporting event to make conversation, prepare for a withering remark about your lack of culture, depth, and intelligence.

    So, which one do you want for your neighbor? Choose carefully!

  235. DreamT Says:

    madhaus – The ideal neighbors are the ones that struggle a bit more than you do, earn a bit less than you do but work longer hours, and have a bit less vacation time. Because happiness is relative to whom you know.

  236. DreamT Says:

    RealEstater said “The main purpose of a job is to be a launching pad for your real estate investments”
    Well, we have our quote of the week.

  237. Pralay Says:

    RealEstater said “The main purpose of a job is to be a launching pad for your real estate investments”
    Well, we have our quote of the week.

    ———

    Warren Buffet, Bill Gates and other dumb guys never understood this universal truth.

  238. anon Says:

    “The main purpose of a job is to be a launching pad for your real estate investments”

    Indeed. This one is quite precious. Sound advice from an even sounder mind.

    Let’s play a game. Hop in a time portal. The year is 1637. A journeyman blacksmith says to one of his worker bees: “The main purpose of your job is to be a launching pad for your tulip investments. What results?

  239. anon Says:

    “madhaus – The ideal neighbors are the ones that struggle a bit more than you do, earn a bit less than you do but work longer hours, and have a bit less vacation time. Because happiness is relative to whom you know.”

    Probably, but the flip side of the coin to this is that (in this day and age) your neighbors will always look at you with at least a hint of jealousy. I agree that you don’t want huge disparities. I’d venture to say ideal neighbors are where each individual believes them to be slightly better off than their neighbors.

    By the way, your previous assessment that a gradual increase of property values is the best shield – rather than a sudden jump like there is in Palo Alto is spot on. This is one of the main reasons I view PA as overrated. That said, you really can’t find a place in the bay area for which this does not remain true. Extrapolate what one will from that ;)

    What’s absolutely certain is that things are not good when you are a have and you are surrounded by have nots…

  240. Prof. Bleen Says:

    In the larger picture your salary increase and bonus have little impact on your life style. That’s not where the money is made. Money is made when wealth is accumulated through leverage and steady long term appreciation. The main purpose of a job is to be a launching pad for your real estate investments (plus healthcare and airline miles, of course). What most people do is to circle around the job itself, getting real excited if they got an incremental raise. That’s why their financial status stays in the same place even though they are advancing in the corproate ladder.

    This sounds like a quote from the Realtor’s Little Red Book.

  241. RealEstater Says:

    What is happening here is people are generally uncomfortable thinking out of the box. This is why people tend to stay in the rat race forever.

  242. RealEstater Says:

    The worst kind of neighbor to have is any kind of musician. The worst kind of wife to have is one that does not cook or clean.

  243. anon Says:

    Yes, you’re right.

    Those of us who are disregarding conventional wisdom have an inability to “think outside of the box.” Thinking outside of the box involves exhibiting actions that conform to the pseudo-axioms of real estate proffered by people whose salaries are paid when real estate changes hands. Mantras such as “Real estate doubles every 10 years,” and “renting is throwing money away” really are new and revolutionary ideas.

    Thinking inside the box means rejecting the “wisdom” that caused this economic meltdown.

    You sir, are truly a revolutionary – an epitome of American penchant for progress. Cheers to you, for your ability to think independently and discern truth from fallacy is unparalleled.

  244. anon Says:

    “The worst kind of neighbor to have is any kind of musician. The worst kind of wife to have is one that does not cook or clean.”

    While your second statement is mostly true, your first one is preposterous.

    Exactly how does having a musician as a neighbor degrade your life?

  245. anon Says:

    Having a musician as a neighbor might even pique your childrens’ interest in the arts. It may help them grow up more cultured and sophisticated than they otherwise would.

    Lord knows they won’t be receiving any teachings in this regard from their father…

  246. Herve Says:

    > I would like to have Chuck Norris style effortless power to turn A/C anywhere anytime

    So far the only thing we know for sure is that it gets cooler when he drops his pants ;-)

  247. anon Says:

    Hey ReAL ESTATER – Here’s one for ya:

    The worst type of human being is one who thinks they are superior because of a material possession.

  248. madhaus Says:

    I wonder what you all think of a wife who cooks but pays someone else to do the heavy cleaning. Probably more than you think of someone who says musicians lower property values.

    Actually I’m on vacation from cooking this weekend because I’m the one doing the taxes.

  249. DreamT Says:

    Seems like RealEstater has little use for sexual intimacy. Well, cooking is definitely more important, especially in a restaurant-barren enclave such as Palo Alto.
    That said, I understood Trophy Wife to mean “looks gorgeous, smiles on cue and knows to shut up” but I now have to revise the definition to “can best the cooking and cleaning ladies COMBINED”

  250. madhaus Says:

    Man who demand maid service from wife will always enjoy empty bed. 8 10 18 28 38 58

    Man who demand maid service from other man’s wife will always enjoy donkey apples and knuckle sandwiches in empty bed. 8 16 18 28 38 56

    Man who criticize neighbor music has no harmony at home. 88 80 72 64 78 98

  251. anon Says:

    Trophy Wife. I never understood that.

    What does it mean?

    Seems to me as though its a fabrication supported by 2 parties:

    1) Women who don’t have enough to offer to obtain successful men
    2) Men who aren’t able to obtain attractive women.

    Call me crazy.

    Please tell me why I am wrong.

  252. anon Says:

    RE, I’m dying to know what your response to : “The worst type of human being is one who thinks they are superior because of a material possession.” is.

    Do you agree?

  253. Pralay Says:

    Seems like RealEstater has little use for sexual intimacy.
    ————

    Gosh, even that part he invested into his home and converted into equity! Now I understand why he has so much equity-envy. That’s just transformed version of penis-envy.

  254. madhaus Says:

    I think what really bugs RE is that I have just as much equity as he does, despite the following “strikes” against me:

    * no penis
    * no “prestigious” zip code
    * no insanely high mortgage
    * no second income

    I mean, if someone like me can obtain a million in equity, that means his entire life and purpose is utterly pointless.

    Oh, wait.

  255. bob Says:

    Or You could live next to neighbor no.4, who moves right next door to neighbor no.3, immediately places a car on blocks, plants plastic pink flamingos, and paints the house neon green, which depresses neighbor no 3’s equity. That and despite neighbor no 3, is an actual professional musician- a country musician at that, who has professional loudspeakers in which he enjoys playing Ricky Skaggs and Kentucky Thunder very loudly over the top of Neighbor 3’s annoying music. That and he doesn’t care about school scores either since his kids are natural geniuses who don’t need good schools to be smart.

    ha ha ha! I win.

  256. DreamT Says:

    bob – You win? How juvenile!

  257. anon Says:

    WHOAH HEY

    why the personal attacks on REAL ESTATER?

    All he’s ever done is try to help…LOL

  258. Renter4 Says:

    >* no penis

    This is definitely the main thing. RE’s world is one in which men battle for prestige, using net worth and women as weapon proxies. We’re here to support the mortgage & do the laundry, madhaus darling. Not to have interesting jobs or hobbies or a purpose other than subservience.

  259. Renter4 Says:

    You know, I almost can’t believe it, but I’m actually a little angry at RE. I wouldn’t’ve thought he could still have that effect on me.

  260. madhaus Says:

    Renter4, always nice to hear from you! You mean you aren’t enjoying your life as a trophy wife? I used to enjoy mine until the rental next door lost the family from abroad and got the Clampetts. The worst part is that they think they know music, but nobody has the heart to tell them otherwise. They keep hollerin’ about broken contracts, well they’re definitely breaking things right now.

    At least they don’t have any electricity so they can’t amplify what they call a band, but the outhouse in their back yard is attracting a lot of vermin.

    So bob, you gonna visit your friends or not?

  261. DreamT Says:

    Renter4 – So by extension burbed is one of RealEstater’s weapon proxies, and his posts are attempts to “castrate” his enemies, i.e. every one of us (especially Pralay it seems)
    Chuckie – That’ll be $250 for the psychotherapy session (payable to burbed@burbed.com who will route). Hope you’re feeling better. No longer need that Porsche, do you?

  262. bob Says:

    Madhaus,
    Yup, No 2 and No.4 are the best of friends. Despite not being on the grid, No.4’s genius children built a solar power unit that attaches to several nanophosphate batteries in the back yard, hence giving the Clampetts free electricity in which to power their mostly traditional instruments. They both also share an interest in global economics but are continuously interrupted rudely by No.3 who loudly claims that they’re both “frakin’ idiots”, in which both no.2 and 4 quietly ignore since they’ve grown accustomed to the noise.

    They have both invited No.3 over for BBQ on several occasions but No.3 refuses. No 2 and 4 have plans to have a demolition derby in the back yard which will make all the neighbors most pleased.

  263. Pralay Says:

    Chuckie – That’ll be $250 for the psychotherapy session (payable to burbed@burbed.com who will route).
    ——–

    That’s probably 0.005% of the equity. Definitely a negligible amount. :)

  264. madhaus Says:

    Did I mention that family #3 is vegetarian? That’s why they don’t come over for BBQ at Chez Quartre. They did invite the 4s over for homemade pizza but got tired of hearing #4’s guests, the #2s, talk about how smart the #4 children are. This was really amusing when one of them spent the entire time staring at the flush toilet like he’d never seen one his entire life, and the other picked her nose for three hours after being admonished by the #3 kids for picking up a guitar by the tuning pegs.

    The #1 family was also in town looking at an open house down the street. The #1 kids went walkabout and met the #3 kids (who were tired of entertaining the low-normal #4 kids) and begged the #3s to let them move in because their father was such a “dorkus maximus.” “I swear if he tells me one more time that houses double every ten years I’m going to shoot somebody.”

  265. madhaus Says:

    … to power their mostly traditional instruments.

    I don’t know. Is this satire, or is it just teh stupid? I’m stumped coming up with a traditional instrument that needs powering.

    Riddle for the #4 family: How many bluegrass musicians does it take to change a light bulb?

    Nobody knows. They won’t touch anything electric.

  266. Herve Says:

    http://www.paloaltoonline.com/weekly/story.php?story_id=9539

    “The rest rooms will carry a $200,000 price tag each” – Waow, suddenly $700B for the bail out plan does not seem that high.

    Anyway, I’m glad I won’t have to drive all the way to Foothills Park when I need to go.

  267. anon Says:

    “Neighbors of Eleanor Pardee Park along Channing Avenue, where one is scheduled to be placed this year, are upset the toilets could encourage unwanted persons to stick around, especially given concerns that gang members have been using the public space.”

    This is cute. Destination land, indeed.


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