November 4, 2008

It’s Election Day. Go vote to preserve the Real Bay Area

Sorry for the re-run, but it is Election Day after all. Go vote!

One of the best and biggest advantages of living in California is that you are able to make a giant impact through Propositions! For example, in 1978, voters ignored their callous politicians (who they had elected), ignored greedy corporations like Bank of America and Standard Oil that the idea would lead to ruin, and enacted the world famous Prop 13 – ensuring that real estate prices would stay high forever, ensuring that our schools and services would have no funding, ensuring that corporations would have a huge tax loophole forever, and ensuring that once you own land in California, you are king. Strong family values.

Well, it’s now that time of year again! Election season! Time for you to make an impact. Here’s Burbed’s guide to the Propositions!

Proposition 1A. Safe, Reliable High-Speed Passenger Train — State of California (Bond Act – Majority Approval Required)
To provide Californians a safe, convenient, affordable, and reliable alternative to driving and high gas prices; to provide good-paying jobs and improve California’s economy while reducing air polution, global warning greenhouse gases, and our dependence on foreign oil, shall $9.95 billion in bonds be issued to establish a clean, efficient high-speed train service linking Southern California, the Sacramento/San Joaquin Valley, and the San Francisco Bay Area, with at least 90 percent of bond funds spent for specific projects, with federal and private matching funds required, all bond funds subject to an independent audit?

Vote No! This will destroy some of our most fragile downtowns – like Mountain View, Burlingame, and others. Furthermore, do we really need access to SoCal? Clearly there’s no reason to go down there, the Bay Area is the most important part of California. Thus, this is being proposed so cultureless SoCal’ers can come up here. Forget about it – this won’t help boost real estate values in the Bay Area. Now… if they were going to build a high speed rail to Moscow, Shanghai, or Mumbai to attract more foreign dollars which are pouring in to buy real estate in world famous Cupertino – that’d be a different story!

Proposition 2. Standards for Confining Farm Animals — State of California (Initiative Statute – Majority Approval Required)
Shall certain farm animals be allowed, for the majority of every day, to fully extend their limbs or wings, lie down, stand up and turn around?

Vote Yes! This will require farms to expand, thus causing land to become even more valuable and expensive. This will help real estate prices for sure!

Proposition 3. Children’s Hospital Bond Act. Grant Program — State of California (Initiative Statute – Majority Approval Required)
Shall $980,000,000 in general obligation bonds be authorized for construction, expansion, remodeling, renovation, furnishing and equipping of eligible children’s hospitals?

Vote No! Come on! Californians voted for Prop 13 30 years ago to send a strong signal: children are not our future. Not only will this not help our most valuable citizens – the baby boomers, our future retirees, this will hurt them by preventing more seniors hospitals from being built. And seniors are the kind of people we need to attract! Can you imagine if we had more world class elderly hospitals? Think about all the cash and equity rich retirees that would be pouring in from Florida, the United Arab Emirates, New York, and London! Think about it: do children have money? No! So why do we want more?

Proposition 4. Waiting Period and Parental Notification Before Termination of Minor’s Pregnancy – State of California (Initiative Constitutional Amendment – Majority Approval Required)
Shall the California Constitution be changed to prohibit abortion for an unemancipated minor until 48 hours after physician notifies minor’s parent, legal guardian, or, in limited cases, substitute adult relative?

Vote Yes! We need to eliminate abortion. Think about it: more fetuses, more people, more need for houses. Eliminating abortion can only help boost real estate prices (though we may need more police as well if you believe in Freakanomics….)

Proposition 5. Nonviolent Drug Offenses, Sentencing, Parole and Rehabilitation — State of California (Initiative Statute – Majority Approval Required)
Shall $460,000,000 be allocated annually to improve and expand treatment programs?

Vote Yes! Just think about how amazing it would be if we could turn these small time drug dealers into something more productive and relevant: mortgage brokers and realtors. Exactly! This is the future right here! With their skills, even more people will be talked into buying houses. “What are you chicken? All the cool kids are buying condos!” Also, with more criminals out and rehabilitated, there will be more demand for housing. Real estate wins again!

Proposition 6. Police and Law Enforcement Funding. Criminal Penalties and Laws — State of California (Initiative Statute – Majority Approval Required)
Shall of minimum of $965,000,000 of state funding be required each year for police and local law enforcement?

Vote Yes! Just incase Prop 4 and Prop 5 pass – this may be helpful. Besides, more police will help house prices.

Proposition 7. Renewable Energy Generation — State of California (Initiative Statute – Majority Approval Required)
Shall government-owned utilities be required to generate 20% of their electricity from renewable energy by 2010, a standard currently applicable to private electrical corporations? Shall all utilities be required to generate 40% by 2020 and 50% by 2025?

Vote Yes! Who doesn’t like clean skies? This will raise real estate prices.

Proposition 8. Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry — State of California (Initiative Constitutional Amendment – Majority Approval Required)
Shall the California Constitution be changed to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry providing that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California?

Vote No! We need gays and lesbians to marry! Why? Once people get married, they will instinctively want to settle down. And what does settling down mean? That’s right! Switching from renters to homeowners. More married same-sex couples will mean more demand for homes. And more demand means higher prices!

Proposition 9. Criminal Justice System. Victims’ Rights. Parole — State of California (Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute – Majority Approval Required)
Shall notification to victim and opportunity for input during phases of criminal justice process, including bail, pleas, sentencing and parole be required? Shall victim safety be a consideration for bail or parole?

Vote No! We need more people outside of jail – not behind bars. What good are people behind bars? They have free housing! We need to get them out, and get them into some sub-prime mortgages! Sorry victims!

Proposition 10. Alternative Fuel Vehicles and Renewable Energy. Bonds — State of California (Initiative Statute – Majority Approval Required)
Shall $5 billion in bonds paid from state’s General Fund be authorized to help consumers and others purchase certain vehicles, and to help research in renewable energy and alternative fuel vehicles?

Vote No! We all want cleaner air and less traffic. The solution is to make sure that only those who can afford to drive clean air cars are allowed to drive! If that were to happen, the Bay Area would be even more progressive! And progressive areas attract the smartest and richest people. Win win!

Proposition 11. Redistricting — State of California (Initiative Constitutional Amendment and Statute – Majority Approval Required)
Shall the authority for establishing state office boundaries be changed from elected representatives to a commission comprised of Democrats, Republicans, and representatives of neither party selected from the registered voter pool in a multilevel process?

Vote Yes or No! Who cares?

Proposition 12. Veteran’s Bond Act of 2008 — State of California (Bond – Majority Approval Required)
Shall a nine hundred million dollar ($900,000,000) bond be issued to provide farm and home aid for California veterans?

Vote Yes! Duh. This might as well say “Do you want the future generations to pay for homes for veterans of today and boost your real estate prices?” Duh!

Well… these are the official stances of Burbed.com on how you should vote on this year’s Propositions!

Agree? Disagree? Let’s hear ‘em!

Comments (92) -- Posted by: burbed @ 5:19 am

92 Responses to “It’s Election Day. Go vote to preserve the Real Bay Area”

  1. sonarrat Says:

    I actually voted about 75% with Burbed. I voted no on 6 and 12, and yes on 10. Probably should have voted no on 7, but I can’t change that now.

  2. Alex Says:

    I would vote for laying train track through Mountain View downtown if there was a such proposition. :P

  3. nomadic Says:

    Stephen Colbert had a funny observation about the Mormons (LDS) and Prop 8 last night. He pointed out how of course they’d support marriage as being between only ONE man and ONE woman… oh, wait a minute! ;-)

  4. Pralay Says:

    Stephen Colbert had a funny observation about the Mormons (LDS) and Prop 8 last night. He pointed out how of course they’d support marriage as being between only ONE man and ONE woman… oh, wait a minute!
    ——–

    That will be next election prop – Prop 88. Definition of marriage: One man and multiple women, including underage girls.

  5. DensityDuck Says:

    Don’t forget to vote Yes on Measure B!

  6. nima_nt Says:

    hahaha, very funny. your suggestions are totally opposite than what i’m going to vote.

  7. madhaus Says:

    I voted 3 weeks ago, didn’t everyone else?

    Have you all seen this anti Prop 8 video? The Mormon church isn’t too happy about it. Well boo effing hoo! You run a huge church and browbeat your congregants to support a political initiative, you take your licks.

    Render unto Caesar doodz! I vote we cut off tax exemption for ANY non-profit who messes around with politicking on that scale. Did you read the news today? $75 MILLION spent on Prop 8 advertising (about even between Yes and No). SEVENTY FIVE MILLION. Do you know how many RBA properties you could buy for that kind of money? Why, that will get you 1/5 of a house in Salinas!

  8. madhaus Says:

    While Chuckieland might have well-rounded children, a Porsche and 2 SUVs on every driveway and a Sub-Zero in every kitchen, burbedland is now reporting in Mountain Time Zone. That’s a great way to ensure homes are more affordable.

    Anyone voting in person? Lines? Crowds? Pauses?

  9. cardinal2007 Says:

    I would suggest you not vote for measure B, that would just give VTA an excuse to keep dragging on about building BART, which they don’t have the money for, while at the same time cutting service for buses, light rail and Caltrain.
    But at the end it is your money, just don’t complain 8 years from now if you have another tax on the ballot for BART, and it is still 15-20 years away.

  10. cardinal2007 Says:

    Anyone voting in person? Lines? Crowds? Pauses?

    A co-worker who lives in Burlingame went around 9am to vote and said there were no lines.

  11. cardinal2007 Says:

    Don’t forget to vote Yes on Measure B!
    You know, there is a measure B in SF and Santa Clara Co. Measure B in SF just seems like an odd way of doing things, but I guess if you want it to stay at 2.5 cents out of ever $100 of property tax revenue for affordable housing for a long time, then that would work.
    Sometimes I wonder why all these ballots measures are necessary, why can’t prop 2, prop 3, prop 5, prop 6, prop 7, and prop 10 be dealt with at the legislative level in Sacramento?

  12. Prof. Bleen Says:

    That video is brilliant, madhaus!

    Is it possible that Burbed just hasn’t made the switch yet from PDT to PST?

  13. sonarrat Says:

    I voted on Saturday morning in San Mateo, getting there right around the time they opened. Parking was a nightmare. I stood out in the rain for about 30 minutes, and the place was very disorganized. But once I turned in my paperwork and got my ticket for the electronic machine, there was only a 2 minute wait to vote.

    The machine itself had a selector dial, not a touchscreen, and it produced a paper trail which it showed to me before I confirmed my ballot for the final time.

  14. DreamT Says:

    We dropped the mail-in envelope at our local precinct (which happens to be in a baptist church..!) with no lines whatsoever. The guy who came next did the same thing. Great invention, these drop-in mail-in envelopes!

  15. nomadic Says:

    I’m just going to be glad not to get more of those idiotic rumor-mongering emails from people anymore! Urban legends passed as fact via email are irritating enough, but when it’s stuff that can so easily be checked (and is meant to form political ideas), it just pisses me off. I don’t even care which side of the argument the stuff is endorsing.

  16. cardinal2007 Says:

    I voted last week, I got a vote-by-mail ballot and filled it out, instead of mailing it in, I drove to the San Mateo County elections office, and there was a box just like a mailbox to drop it off, it said mail-in ballot box, so I dropped it off, and didn’t even have to get out of my car. It was really quick.

  17. nomadic Says:

    Does anybody know why some people get postage-free ballot envelopes and some (most) have to pay 59 cents to mail them in? We were wondering here at the office. We all voted by mail; two people had pre-paid envelopes.

  18. SanMatean Says:

    Twenty minute lines this morning in San Mateo. Pretty well organized and staffed, but 8 voting machines really cut down the throughput. Same machines as sonarrat reported. Write-in ballots if you prefer.

  19. cardinal2007 Says:

    I can’t believe Burbed would put ads for the Yes on 8 campaign right at the top of the webpage, especially after urging a no vote.

    Hint: click on AdSense Setup tab, click on Competitive Ad Filter. Enter all websites you don’t want advertising on your site there.

    I really don’t like seeing those ads so I’m going to back off of this site for a while. See you all after the election.

    And consider voting no on prop 8: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-prop8-2-2008nov02,0,5926932.story
    The LA Times article talks about many of the issues brought up including those by the yes on 8 side, and explains how they are misleading in their ads, including that lie about churches losing their tax-exempt status, you can read it and disagree, but it doesn’t hurt to be informed.

  20. Pralay Says:

    two people had pre-paid envelopes.
    ——

    That’s interesting. As far I know California mail-in ballot is not prepaid. I had to pay for stamps for both last primary and this election. However, ballots with insufficient envelopes are going to be delivered.

    Ballots with incorrect postage to be delivered

  21. rick Says:

    All against Burbed except 3, 4, and 7 (don’t care).

    “only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California”

    What does this mean? The legislature decided that? Or is it talking about the case for court and taxation?

  22. nomadic Says:

    rick – that is the proposed language for an amendment to the state constitution. That would apply to courts, taxes, everything.

    I was wondering about the pre-paid thing and found this reference in the “Action Line” section of the Merc:

    Correct postage for the blue return envelopes is 59 cents, regardless of weight. The registrar has an agreement with the post office to deliver all ballots, including those with insufficient postage. Green precinct envelopes require no stamps — the postage is prepaid.

    So I guess if you live the “right” precinct (Right-BA?), you get free postage. Those people did have green envelopes instead of the usual blue. I don’t care; it’s worth a couple of stamps not to have to vote in person.

  23. DensityDuck Says:

    BART-Measure B won’t collect taxes unless the Feds come across with the required money. Neither did the previous BART vote.

  24. burbed Says:

    I hadn’t thought about filtering those kinds of ads. Oops.

  25. cardinal2007 Says:

    Neither did the previous BART vote.
    In that you are incorrect, it is better to be educated about this things:

    http://www.vta.org/2000_measure_a/index.html

    The Measure A ballot listed 14 specific projects or project areas ….. Collection of the 2000 Measure A sales tax began on April 1, 2006 and will continue through March 31, 2036. The VTA Board of Directors is responsible for implementation of the 2000 Measure A Program and for all policy-related decisions including the composition, implementation schedule and funding level of projects.

    The Federal Government, the FTA to be specific gave BART to San Jose a “not recommended” rating, this was back in 2005. The FTA would not give the money without cutting costs on the project, which the VTA has not done, it could do that by building a shorter tunnel section than the long tunnel between Santa Clara Caltrain and Alum Rock, remove the Alum Rock station among some other things, it could increase ridership projections by building dense housing at Berryessa, it has done none of these. It additionally needed to provide funding for operating costs at $75M/yr, which the $48M/yr tax failed to address. In 2006 it was written that “Critics and supporters both believe an additional sales tax of at least one-quarter cent will be needed to cover the $75 million it will cost a year to run BART trains. And they expect a measure will be on the ballot in 2008, a few months before the VTA would like to go back to the FTA to seek federal aid.”

    http://www.mercurynews.com/bart/ci_4846546

    In order to pass BART you need 1/2 cent sales tax, they could have put 1/4 cent sales tax on the ballot, and then they wouldn’t have this issue when they go to the FTA, well at least in terms of operating costs, but instead they want to wing it, like they have been doing for 8 years, they would have to gut all other 13 projects in measure A to get close to paying the $6B for BART, even if the Feds gave $1B. I still find it surprising that people find a project to build high-speed rail for over 600 miles for $42B a boondoggle, but spending 1/7 of that for 16 miles of rail is not.

    The ridership numbers are also wildly optimistic, BART has 104 miles of track and gets 360k riders a day, BART goes to downtown Oakland, downtown Berkeley, and downtown San Francisco, all places where it is dense, and also has traffic issues, and it is hard or expensive to park, 140k riders for the 16 miles of track in the much lower density area of Santa Clara County is at best a stretch, a more likely situation is 40k, similar to the 32-35k in San Mateo Co. though those are commuting to SF, and some from SF to Silicon Valley, primarily Palo Alto, commuting to a low density employment area over BART seems more unlikely.

  26. madhaus Says:

    103-34 EVs so far. Looking really good for Obama.

  27. madhaus Says:

    Heck, it’s done.

    Click here.

  28. anon Says:

    nice. palin doesn’t appear to have changed.

  29. anon Says:

    Watching the election was like watching pralay and RE go at it.

  30. bob Says:

    YAY!!!!!!!! Obama won!

  31. nomadic Says:

    Nice speech. I wasn’t overly excited about Obama, and he didn’t really say a lot, but I thought it was good. It set a somber yet hopeful tone. I think he will really make a difference in this country.

    Prop 8 is behind 55/45 with 17% of precincts reporting. Very disappointing to think it could pass.

  32. RealEstater Says:

    Very very happy with the election result. That was quite an inspirational victory speech delivered by Obama. We’re finally back to having a competent, intelligent person in the white house as opposed to someone who’s just the opposite.

    If you look at the map to see where the red colors are, it’s typical suspects: places in the middle and the South. America’s political system can only undergo a real transformation if we get these southern baptists bastions of conservatism uprooted from power, and it’s happening right now with the Republicans losing seats in both the House and Senate.

  33. nomadic Says:

    Yeah, I think the religious right is the biggest threat to the nation long term. (Internally.)

    But I also believe that a balance is needed in government and if the Democrats have the White House AND a large majority in Congress, we’re going to tip too far toward Socialism. Just look at the multiple bailouts they keep pushing for. We need the tension between the two sides to keep government in check. I’m actually hoping the Dems don’t gain more seats tonight, although I don’t expect it to happen.

  34. RealEstater Says:

    >>Prop 8 is behind 55/45 with 17% of precincts reporting. Very disappointing to think it could pass.

    You know, I have a theory about this. CA has a large population of naturalized citizens who don’t fully understand this issue, and they’re easily influenced by those misleading ads which play on their traditional beliefs brought over from their home country. I agree that it’s very disappointing and very unfortunate.

  35. zanon Says:

    RealEstater: You and I are in agreement re: Prop 8. These naturalized citizens should be re-educated until they think Right Thoughts.

    Maybe we can have mandatory camps? And people have to pass a quiz at the end?

    Perhaps the US should also run outreach programs in other countries so they can think Right Thoughts there too?

  36. madhaus Says:

    Don’t beat up on the naturalized citizens. Who else has cash on the sidelines to rescue our housing values?

    A similar gay marriage ban passed in Arizona. The only good news about Prop 8 is few of the counted votes came from SF or LA; when they report in the numbers will sink.

  37. nomadic Says:

    oh, c’mon zanon. We’re all happy in the afterglow of the beginning-of-the-end of the Bush administration and you spoil it. :-)

    I would expect naturalized citizens to be generally more tolerant and likely to vote no on 8 though. I’m not hugely well-traveled, but my experience living in Europe left me with the feeling that homosexuality is not such a big deal like it is in the States.

  38. DreamT Says:

    If prop 8 passes I’ll be ashamed of the state I reside in. I’m already ashamed of some of my neighbors who put up Yes on 8 signs. Well at least we no longer have to be ashamed of the president-elect – that’s progress.

  39. nomadic Says:

    You said it, DreamT! LOL

    At least no one stole my No on 8 sign. Two of my co-workers had theirs taken. However, I did get an anonymous piece of mail last week with a printout from the American Family Association website. Odd how offensive that is to me. I can only imagine how a gay person would feel.

  40. RealEstater Says:

    Wow, look at the high speed train results, very very close.

  41. cardinal2007 Says:

    1a, 4, and 8 are very close, in fact 1a and 4 are closer than 8. I will be really disappointed if prop 8 ultimately does pass. RE might have some point, the culture in many of these Hispanic countries is very intolerable, and have large populations that follow exactly what the pope says (not everyone, but a non-trivial minority or majority). Though polling showed that Hispanics were split on 8, Asians were mostly opposed to 8. I don’t know about natularized citizens, I don’t support prop 8 for example, a lot of them grew up in this country, I think they are probably more split that RE gives credit for.

  42. madhaus Says:

    I’m reading about six different election results pages and one of them said that African-Americans came out in favor of Prop 8 — significantly.

    Also, the LA Times has a county by county map, and I don’t think it looks good for those of us rooting for 8 to lose. San Diego and Orange County are coming in just as slowly as the rest of the coast. North coast is voting it down. I would expect LA as a whole would vote against 8, only 10% is in and it’s trending yes so far. But I would also expect SD & OC to vote heavily in favor of Prop 8.

    Yeccch. At least 4 is failing.

  43. madhaus Says:

    Sorry, here is link to LA Times election returns page. The county by county feature is very cool.

  44. RealEstater Says:

    When I looked at the NCal results, all counties oppose it except for Solano County (Not sure what’s going on there). I bet a lot of support comes from the Republican base in Orange County, places like Irvine.

  45. RealEstater Says:

    In #44, I’m talking about Prop 8.

  46. bob Says:

    That anyone would be denied their rights as US citizens is absolutely amazing to me. If Prop 8 passes, that will be a sad thing indeed.

  47. DreamT Says:

    bob – As US citizen? Come on! Marriage is not a citizenship prerogative. You almost sound like RealEstater in artificially opposing US-born versus “foreigners”.

  48. RealEstater Says:

    DreamT,

    Give Bob a break. He just got dis-owned by Tennessee for opposing everything they stand for.

  49. DreamT Says:

    Giving bob a break? NEVER!! His posts are my only ray of sunshine. ;)

  50. RealEstater Says:

    Interesting to see that Prop K is headed for defeat in SF.

  51. Renter4 Says:

    Well, that was a short election night. I was expected it to run through Friday, minimum. Not a landslide, but very nice margin indeed.

    Santa Clara county is voting against Prop 8, Contra Costa also. It’s not over till it’s over…. I just refuse to believe it can pass.

  52. anon Says:

    Ah, the election is over.

    Never mind the fact that we just witnessed a revolution – let’s get back to the arguing.

  53. bob Says:

    RE,
    Yes, I’m disappointed that my home state voted so heavily Republican. But I’m not surprised. The majority of the state is rural. The three major cities are heavily Democratic, but the biggest city is Memphis and it is barely a million people.So the rural areas outweigh the urban areas and as in most states- rural areas tend to vote conservatively. If California was predominantly rural, the outcome would have been the same. The divide isn’t necessarily region versus region, but rather city versus country.

    Look at NC for example; a bastion of conservatism except for the rapidly growing cities if Asheville, Raleigh, Durahm, and Chapel Hill. All modern, developing, progressive cities full of people from all over the country. As a result, the voting demographic of the state has changed dramatically.

    But in any regards, I am extremely happy that Obama has won and now can get some much-needed rest.

  54. DreamT Says:

    I heard the comment on TV from a black person “Couldn’t believe that white people would vote for a black person”.
    Well maybe ten years ago it would have been 40%, and now it’s 55%. Still a long way to go in my opinion, and just because we reached a majority doesn’t mean that before it was a certain way and now another. It’s time to stop seeing the world in black and white… anon, I also don’t think tonight qualifies as a revolution. I’d rather call the past eight years a hiatus ;)

  55. anon Says:

    DreamT, this is as close to a revolution as can reasonably occur anymore, in my opinion.

    Like you said, the world’s not black and white. However, this is a step in the right direction and and indication that the American populace may wake up.

  56. Pralay Says:

    Chuckie can blame naturalized citizens all he wants, but let’s look at the countries at CNN:

    Santa Clara County (a place for ONLY born citizens – like Chuckie, natural citizens are banned in this county): No 55%, Yes 45% (44% precincts reporting)

    San Mateo (same as Santa Clara, no natural citizen): No 62%, Yes 38% (78% reporting)

    Alameda (same as Santa Clara, but lots of people who don’t look like Chuckie – especially in skin-colors): No 64%, Yes 36% (34% reporting)

    Then

    Fresno (home of naturalized citizens, you just don’t find born citizen Chuckies here): Yes 69%, No 31% (100% reporting)

    San Joaquin (all naturalized citizens live there, no Chuckie-like born citizens here): Yes 66%, No 34% (73% reporting)

    Sacramento (mostly naturalized citizens, very few Chuckies): Yes 54%, No 46% (78% reporting)

  57. Pralay Says:

    BTW, CNN’s county-by-county result on prop 8

  58. bob Says:

    I agree. This is mind blowing, and if it isn’t a revolution, then its a revolt against the politics of the past and “conservative values”. The Republicans are going to have to re-invent their party.

  59. Pralay Says:

    but my experience living in Europe left me with the feeling that homosexuality is not such a big deal like it is in the States.
    ——-

    I agree. Gay marriage is a big issue in America because churches have tremendous influence in state affairs.

  60. Pralay Says:

    When I looked at the NCal results, all counties oppose it except for Solano County
    —–

    Sacramento, El Dorado, Pacer, San Joaquin.

    Then all the small small countries in far north, except Mendocino and Humbolt. They all add up.

  61. DreamT Says:

    bob – Thanks, that’s exactly what I meant. We witnessed a revolt, not a revolution.
    anon – A “step”? After the hyperbole, the euphemism. :P

  62. Pralay Says:

    I would expect LA as a whole would vote against 8, only 10% is in and it’s trending yes so far.
    ——–

    Unfortunately LA country is voting for prop 8. Huge disappointment.

    Due to two reason in my guess

    – Catholic voters are all voting for prop 8, influenced by church. LA county has large population of catholics.

    – North-east part of LA county is just so un-LA. They are more like San Barnandino and Riverside county. They all voted for Yes.

  63. Pralay Says:

    The Republicans are going to have to re-invent their party.
    ——

    Oh boy! That’s so wishful thinking. Keep in mind that Democrats won this election (and 2006) not because they had any better idea, but because Bush and his party just did everything wrong (and people could not take it anymore).

    Therefore, Republicans don’t have to re-invent anything. Democrats just have to do act like Bushies to lose next election.

    After all these economic turmoil and no end of it in sight, I have a pessimistic feeling that Obama presidency is going to be one term presidency – like Jimmy Carter. Carter was a great president, but he had to fight his reelection in wrong time – bad economy, inflation, high oil price, iran hostage crisis.

  64. anon Says:

    That’s pretty likely, but at least next time around palin won’t be involved. Hopefully.

    Fine DreamT, its somewhere between a step and a revolution. I’m going to give it 93.7% revolution, 6.3% step.

  65. Pralay Says:

    Perhaps the US should also run outreach programs in other countries so they can think Right Thoughts there too?
    ———

    Actually outreach program for ALL US citizens would be better option, considering the fact that most of the Americans don’t get what is bill of rights, what is separation of church-and-state etc. As a result they end up amending constitution based on their religious convictions. Prop 8 is a perfect example of this.

  66. bob Says:

    Don’t agree with you Parlay on this one. There has been a shift of educated, professional whites to the Democratic party. Just 15-20 years ago, they went for Republicans.

    Mccain lost because he pandered exclusively to a lower educated, socially conservative base. But this base alone isn’t large enough to vote Republicans into the White House anymore with the loss of white professionals, and now the majority of minorities.

    Secondly, eight years is a long time. My Brother is now 24 years old. He was 16 when Bush took office. He has grown up with an administration that has become extremely unpopular with younger Americans. If you watched TV last night, the audience at Obama’s rally was younger, more ethnically diverse, and in HUGE quantities. Mccain’s gathering was almost pitiful, tiny, and mostly older white folks. So in just eight years, a huge shift has occurred.

    Republicans are going to have to abandon focusing on social conservatism as a base and work on developing a new identity more inline with modern America.

  67. nomadic Says:

    Keep in mind that Democrats won this election (and 2006) not because they had any better idea, but because Bush and his party just did everything wrong (and people could not take it anymore).

    Therefore, Republicans don’t have to re-invent anything. Democrats just have to do act like Bushies to lose next election.

    So true! But unfortunate.

    Mccain lost because he pandered exclusively to a lower educated, socially conservative base.

    I think bob is on the right track with this one. The other issue, of course, is that McCain couldn’t differentiate himself from Bush enough and the economy is in the toilet.

    I hope, hope, hope that we’ve seen the last of Ms. Palin but I’ve seen quite a few articles saying the Republican Party sees her as the future. Mind-boggling (and frightening) that the religious nuts could have that much power.

  68. RealEstater Says:

    Pralay says,
    >>considering the fact that most of the Americans don’t get what is bill of rights, what is separation of church-and-state etc.

    Uh? Pretty sweeping accusations here. Any data to prove this?

    I must be one of these Americans, since it’s pretty difficult to see how separation of church and state has anything to do with Prop 8.

  69. RealEstater Says:

    >>Therefore, Republicans don’t have to re-invent anything. Democrats just have to do act like Bushies to lose next election.

    Emulating Bush will be a tough feat. Can anyone possibly achieve all of following:

    1. Invade another country under a false claim.
    2. Take thousands of American casualties after declaring victory.
    3. Screw up the economy to bits, and then try to rescue it with 700 billion dollars of tax payers’ money.
    4. Turn the largest budget surplus history to the largest budget deficit in history.
    5. Make the whole world hate us.

  70. R Says:

    I agree Bob. In the past, as a white male with a graduate degree making pretty decent money, I would have been a republican. And a few years ago, I considered myself a republican (supported Bush in 2000 when I graduated college). However, like most of my friends (who happen to be of similar background/demographic), I voted for Obama. The republican party is now socially conservative and fiscally liberal, the complete opposite of my views and the views of the vast majority of educated young people. Unless the republican party ditches its far-right, socially conservative platform, I don’t see how it is going to survive going forward. There just aren’t enough people who adhere to those views. I just wish there wish there was a party for moderates. But unfortunately, the right is going farther right and the left (I fear) is going farther left. I hope Obama governs from the middle although I have my doubts.

  71. Pralay Says:

    Uh? Pretty sweeping accusations here. Any data to prove this?
    ——–

    Any data to prove naturalized citizens voted Yes for prop 8, Chuckie?

    BTW, read this article in Washington Post:

    Only one of the 1,000 adults polled in the telephone survey could name all five freedoms guaranteed under the First Amendment.
    ….
    ….
    Similarly, only 8 people in 100 could name at least three First Amendment freedoms.
    ….
    ….
    Survey respondents wrongly said that the First Amendment guarantees rights to own and raise pets (21 percent), to drive (20 percent) and of women to vote (36 percent). The first two are not rights at all, and women’s suffrage was not enshrined in the Constitution until ratification of the 19th Amendment in 1920.

    ———
    I must be one of these Americans, since it’s pretty difficult to see how separation of church and state has anything to do with Prop 8.
    ———

    That’s is so Chuckie – a guy with full of equity and ignorance! I won’t be surprised if he voted Yes for prop 8.
    Well, “marriage between a man and a woman” – who defined it? State? Or religious institution? I am sure it was not in state constitution before this prop 8 amendment. So why people are voting Yes on prop 8? People voted being influenced by religious institution and their religious ideology, right? And ignorance. So California now amending constitution based on the definition of marriage set by some mormon and catholic churches. What a great example of separation of state and church.
    Now we are in slippery slope. If state constitution is amended by the influence of religious institutions, what’s next? Banning re-marriage for divorced people – as par catholic church? New defintion of marriage: a man and 100 women – as par FLDS church?

    So it seems Chuckie is like those ignorant born citizens mentioned in Washington Post article.

  72. Pralay Says:

    Emulating Bush will be a tough feat.
    ——–

    No, someone just have to get a blowjob from one of the interns in Whitehouse. All Americans will vote for Republicans again, in the name of “restoring honor and integrity of Whitehouse” – like they did 8 years back. Whether Amedicans did for right reason or wrong reason, that’s totally different discussion. :)

  73. R Says:

    RE, if you don’t think Prop 8 has anything to do with separate of church and state…well, you need to dig a little deeper. It has/had everything to do with it. Why do you think the mormon church was the largest single contributor to yes on 8? Because they view gay marriage as wrongful under their religion and want their religious views engrained in CA’s Constitution. And who can blame them.

  74. Pralay Says:

    Because they view gay marriage as wrongful under their religion and want their religious views engrained in CA’s Constitution.
    ——

    Exactly. And it’s very unfortunate that 52% Californians went that way and voted Yes. Amending state constitution based on religious ideology is a very very bad thing.

  75. R Says:

    I agree Pralay. As long as civil unions are granted exactly the same rights as marriages and thus are deprived of no rights other than to call themselves “married”, I don’t have a huge problem with gays not being allowed to get “married.” The bigger problem I have is amending the constitution based on religious ideology. I am a christian but do not believe christian morals should be written into the constitution any more than muslim, jewish, etc. beliefs.

  76. Pralay Says:

    The bigger problem I have is amending the constitution based on religious ideology.
    ——-

    Right. And I don’t think majority of Californians understood the impact of voting Yes on prop 8.

    It’s a slipper slope. When the line between State Constitution and religious books (whether its Bible or Quran or Geeta or Tanakh or Tripitaka) become blurry, State loses.

  77. nomadic Says:

    RE, your lack of perspective continues to amaze me.

    ———-
    Switching gears… it was interesting to look at the county maps on the site madhaus pointed to and see that the people who voted yes on 8 had the least education and the lowest incomes. I wasn’t surprised it was the case, but interested to have my assumptions validated.

  78. Pralay Says:

    it was interesting to look at the county maps on the site madhaus pointed to and see that the people who voted yes on 8 had the least education and the lowest incomes. I wasn’t surprised it was the case, but interested to have my assumptions validated.
    —–

    Therefore, it’s great time to buy home in RBA…NOW! You don’t want to live with those least educated people, who voted yes on 8, in Sacramento or Central Valley or some pockets of East Bay, Santa Clara or San Mateo counties. Buy home in RBA now and become neighbor of no on 8 people.

    This is going to be Chuckie’s next sales pitch. :)

  79. RealEstater Says:

    >>RE, if you don’t think Prop 8 has anything to do with separate of church and state…well, you need to dig a little deeper.

    Just because certain religious groups back Prop 8 doesn’t mean Prop 8 is about church and state. If so, you can argue anything is related to church and state, since the church holds views toward all aspects of life. Prayers in school is a church and state issue. Prop 8 is not.

  80. Pralay Says:

    If so, you can argue anything is related to church and state, since the church holds views toward all aspects of life.
    ——-

    It’s amazing Chuckie still doesn’t get it.

    There is nothing wrong in church holding view of aspects of life. What is wrong is that amending state constitution based on church’s view.

  81. nomadic Says:

    Pralay, it’s just like so-called “Intelligent Design.” Nothing to do with the church…

    Well, until they found the drafts of the panda-something textbook where they had crossed out stuff about creationsim and God in order to make it look more secular. Details:
    http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8061

  82. zanon Says:

    Well, I take it back. I was with RE and thought that immigrants in California were responsible for prop 8 passing, but the polls show that hispanics were pretty split on the issue. the only ethnic group with a strong position for prop 8 were african americans — who probably vote Democratic, but it seems are very conservative on this.

    i was totally wrong, i take it back. it looks like the education needs to begin at home.

  83. Pralay Says:

    Well, until they found the drafts of the panda-something textbook where they had crossed out stuff about creationsim and God in order to make it look more secular.
    ———-

    While arguing against Evolution Theory, the ID proponents themselves went through many stages of evolution – just for purpose of getting secular appearence. What could be more ironic than that!

  84. nomadic Says:

    zanon, I read this morning that African Americans were the one group very much opposed to Prop 8. I figured it was because they can related to institutionalized disrimination.

    This site also disputes the claims that they were supporting the amendment:
    http://www.camajorityreport.com/index.php?module=articles&func=display&ptid=9&aid=3824
    this too:
    http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/NO-Prop-8-Campaign-Slams/story.aspx?guid=%7B46A5E8D2-7289-40FE-AD49-CBA0B4971340%7D

  85. anon Says:

    By the way, “Guys,”

    Dow’s down 5% the day after news of our new president comes out.

    Cleared for takeoff, indeed.

  86. Prof. Bleen Says:

    nomadic: Good point. I should point out that the “drafts” of Of Pandas and People were actually different editions of the book: the later one had references to the “Creator” changed to “Designer.”

    Another telling change was in the name and logo of the Discovery Institute (DI). Originally, the institute was called the “Center for Renewal of Science and Culture” and featured on its Web site the famous picture of God and Adam from the Sistine Chapel. The name evolved in several steps to “Center for Science and Culture” and the banner to God touching a DNA molecule; God finally left the picture when the institute began to pose as a secular organization.

    Anyone interested in the true intent of the DI should read their infamous “Wedge Document, which explains how the organization “seeks the overthrow of materialism” and advocates a purely theological view of science. Another must-read for those interested in the evolution/creationism “controversy” is the decision written by Judge John Jones for the Kitzmiller (Dover, PA) trial.

  87. WillowGlenner Says:

    very disappointed that prop 8 passed, and 1a passed and the south bay bart bond failed.

    The presidential election was great, but the locals pretty much sucked for me.

  88. WillowGlenner Says:

    on a better note, the state of Colorado, a formerly red state had an initiative on the ballot that claimed a fertilized egg was a “person”. No details and ramifications on the ballot, just a law that stated that as fact. Thank GOD that failed. but in this day and age you really never know.

  89. WillowGlenner Says:

    Real Estater, you forgot Bush’s KATRINA accomplishment in your list.

  90. nomadic Says:

    Prof. Bleen, I think we should have a tax on religious organizations for the time (read “taxpayer dollars”) wasted in courts on things like creationism and the lawsuits that are being generated to fight Prop 8’s passage.

  91. Prof. Bleen Says:

    Alas, creationist efforts to undermine science teaching don’t generally arise from specific religious organizations. I’d have loved to see the Discovery Institute, or the members of the school board, pay the legal fees for the Kitzmiller trial, but unfortunately the Dover school district, being the legal defendant, wound up footing the bill.

  92. RealEstater Says:

    >>Real Estater, you forgot Bush’s KATRINA accomplishment in your list.

    You’re right, and “No Child Left Behind”, or “Patriot Act”!


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