November 30, 2008

California Layoff Tracker Database Notice

California Layoff Notices
This is a database of layoff notices filed with the state Employment Development Department under the California Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act. The WARN Act requires certain employers to give affected employees at least 60 days advance written notice of any plant closing or mass layoff. (Note: The state updates the WARN list once a month. The data below is based on information provided on Nov. 10, 2008.)

To wrap up Thanksgiving weekend, be thankful that your company is not listed on this site.

Or is it?

Comments (103) -- Posted by: burbed @ 5:58 am

103 Responses to “California Layoff Tracker Database Notice”

  1. anon Says:

    Looks like someone didn’t get the memo that the bay area is recession proof!

  2. nomadic Says:

    anon, unless someone specific is affected it is irrelevant. Useless aggregate data.

  3. bob Says:

    That’s insane. Lots of people being laid off in all sectors it appears. I am indeed thankful to still be employed as I personally know many people in CA as well as other areas of the country that have all lost their jobs. One of them just a month ago bought a new house and has a new born child. It sucks for him because they live in the middle of nowhere NC and the company he was at was the main employer. Another friend of mine was laid off from a security systems installation company. They did upper end homes in Florida and SC. Not anymore. My Brother was supposed to start working at a new job after graduation this summer. They’re not so sure now. He was sort of counting on that to pay off his student loans.

    Not very pretty out there right now.

  4. anon Says:

    “anon, unless someone specific is affected it is irrelevant. Useless aggregate data.”

    Of course. What is an aggregation but a collection of specific instances?

    Maybe you mean its irrelevant unless the entire set is ascertainable?

  5. nomadic Says:

    I’m only saying that as long as the narcissist has his job, then unemployment can hit 10% or more and the attitude will be “so what? 90% of people still have jobs!”

  6. anon Says:

    And if (when? lol) 99% have lost their jobs… It’ll be:

    No recession in my real bay area. Sorry to hear you have one in your real bay area. Just kidding. I’m not sorry.

  7. Real Estater Says:

    Unemployment rate is at 6.5%. There no news there. Here’s what’s news:

    Drop in interest rates is kick starting the mortgage industry

    – Indications are Black Friday Retail sales are brisk. Someone even got trampled to death trying to rush into Walmart.

  8. DreamT Says:

    ONLY ON BURBED! How a death by trampling is a GOOD SIGN for bay area real estate. Reserve your seat now.

  9. anon Says:

    I’ve reserved my seat, my popcorn, and my junior mints.

    The availability of loans will not change the fact that the American consumer doesn’t have the money to pay off the loans.

    Accordingly, a temporary stay on foreclosures and more credit will only soften the fall; they will not prevent it.

  10. nomadic Says:

    Thanks, DreamT! I was still trying to get my head around that comment when you put it all back into perspective for me.

    :-)

  11. madhaus Says:

    What would we do without perspective. Oh yeah. Buy a bigger house we don’t need.

  12. DreamT Says:

    I’ll let you all in on a small secret: RealEstater was a cheerleader when she was young!

  13. bob Says:

    A drop in interest rates doesn’t change the situation. At most, you’re talking what?- a few hundred bucks in savings? Might make a difference in Arkansas on a $100,000 house, but not on some 650k house in the Bay Area. Oh- and by the way- Stocks down over 400 points so far today. Whoops!

  14. RealEstater Says:

    Bob,

    Do the math. The more you borrow, the more you save. You won’t feel it on a $100K house in Arkansas, but you’ll save a significant amount in the Bay Area. Keep in the mind the actual cost of a house is the sale price + the financing costs.

  15. RealEstater Says:

    >>Oh- and by the way- Stocks down over 400 points so far today. Whoops!

    The drop is due to profit taking after “the best 5 days since 1932″, rather than being tied to any economic news.

  16. Herve Says:

    I feel lucky I got to live the 5 best days since 1932. Special too. How about a “I lived the 5 best days since 1932 and all I got was this lousy t-shirt” t-shirt?

    Now, the good news: http://online.barrons.com/article/SB122790845583965243.html?page=sp

  17. bob Says:

    I’d rather stick with my current plan: Save money by buying a house cheaper as the prices drop. That’d be a bigger savings than “getting in” with a lower interest rate.

    Profit taking or not, the market is down. And as someone else aptly recalled the last time you mentioned that stocks had the best 5 days since 1932… saying that stocks had their best performance since the worst time period of the depression era lasting until WW2 isn’t really bragging.

  18. nomadic Says:

    No economic news at all… I only see these headlines this morning:

    US construction spending falls
    ISM Factory Index in US Decreased to 26-Year Low
    Ford Says It May Sell Volvo, Its Last European Brand
    Stocks tumble on economy and spending angst
    Qimonda delays earnings, could run short of cash in 2009 (that’s a chipmaker)

    On another note – now they are calling an “auto bubble:” http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/30/news/companies/auto_bubble/?postversion=2008120110

  19. bob Says:

    Kind of interesting article about cars Nomadic. If I were in the market for a new car, its insane what you can get one for. I saw an add for a new Focus this weekend: $11,000 out the door.

    Another thing I wonder about is if automakers are taking into consideration that their cars simply last longer. It isn’t unusual to get at least 200,000 miles on a car these days. When I was a kid, if you had 100,000, it was considered impressive. Perhaps people simply don’t need to replace their cars as quickly.

  20. Trader Joe Says:

    http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/

    Low interest rates don’t exist for everyone.

  21. anon Says:

    Now’s a good time to buy a gas guzzler. Maybe I’ll get rid of my sedan for a vette.

  22. bob Says:

    I know. Gas is “cheap” again… for now. I’m still considering getting a classic Vette.

    Anyhow, looks like the DOW gave up most of last week’s gains… erasing the “Best five days since 1932″

  23. Prof. Bleen Says:

    The drop is due to profit taking after “the best 5 days since 1932″, rather than being tied to any economic news.

    According to Dow Jones: “Energy and financial stocks paced a sharp drop in U.S. equity prices Monday, as economic reports from around the world compounded anxiety about a global recession.”

    Yep, we’re pacing 1932 pretty closely, all right. Nothing for it but to buy more real estate.

  24. Prof. Bleen Says:

    Do the math. The more you borrow, the more you save.

    Logic by Blondie Bumstead. Shameless hucksterism by our friendly local “average tech guy.”

  25. madhaus Says:

    Do the math. The more you borrow, the more you save.

    Debt is Wealth. Freedom is Slavery. War is Peace. Love is Hate. RBA is actual location.

  26. anon Says:

    The best part of this listing is the deferred maintenance.

    I hear that is in high demand. After all, isn’t that one of the joys of homeownership?

  27. anon Says:

    “Do the math. The more you borrow, the more you save.

    Logic by Blondie Bumstead. Shameless hucksterism by our friendly local “average tech guy.””

    Well played, Bleen. The irony of an utter incompetent stating ‘do the math’ is so thick, I can barely stomach it four days after my thanksgiving dinner.

    What’s even more comical is the fact that, over the course of a standard 30 year loan, a debtor ends up paying OVER TWO TIMES THE ACTUAL PURCHASE PRICE. Ah, the power of compound interest. So powerful it can make you rich. Or keep you broke. I’m confused. Is that a win-win?

  28. nomadic Says:

    Do I find this disturbing only because I have no offspring to disappoint? Or do parents really lack the balls to say no to the precious bundles of DNA? (My parents sure didn’t have a problem with “no.”)

    http://my.earthlink.net/channel/news/print?guid=20081129/4930cc50_3ca6_1552620081129-1523076512

    “Parents have trouble saying no,” said Allison Pugh, a University of Virginia sociology professor. She says parents often buy toys to avoid guilt and ensure their children feel in sync with school classmates.

    -snip-

    “I had one parent who said she’d prostitute herself to get what her child wants,” Almodovar said.

  29. madhaus Says:

    Thanks for that story, nomadic. Just like RBA real estate, the toy industry is supposedly recession-proof because of all the parents who just cannot say no to the little darlings.

    Except the toy industry is not recession-proof at all. This holiday season will prove that.

    “Toy companies advertise to children because it works, to be brutally honest,” Gottlieb said in an interview.

    Gottlieb also contends that it’s good for children to encounter toy ads – even in cases where products later turn out to be disappointments.

    “It teaches, for very low stakes, how to navigate in our consumer culture,” he said.

    “They are going to have to spend the rest of their lives listening to every kind of marketing approach, and childhood is where they will learn to cope with it.”

    Yup. They’ll need it to dismiss arguments such as, “The more you borrow the more you save,” “[special place] real estate doubles every ten years,” and the popular perennial, “Now is the time to buy!”

  30. nomadic Says:

    hehe, I just ordered my DVD of “What Would Jesus Buy?” for a little holiday humor. :-)

    Have you heard of Reverend Billy and the Church of Stop Shopping? Seems pretty funny even though he’s advocating a further decline in our economy – or, as he puts it “stop the shopocalypse!”

  31. anon Says:

    Giving your kids everything they want…

    I can’t think of a better way to propagate their sense of entitlement. I can’t think of a better way to cause them to be lazy and overindulgent, and I can’t think of a better way to ensure that they are debt-slaves when they get older and the price tag for their ‘toys’ increases exponentially.

    Moreover, I can’t think of a better way to put fuel in the engine that is the American economy.

    “Yup. They’ll need it to dismiss arguments such as, “The more you borrow the more you save,” “[special place] real estate doubles every ten years,” and the popular perennial, “Now is the time to buy!””

    This is an interesting comment. My personal take is that people’s vulnerability to commercials increases with their exposure as children.

    Submit. Consume. Buy. Those are the messages propagated by the media.

    This quote is also good: “Believe me, there are families with much bigger issues on their plates right now then worrying about whether their child will be unhappy because they did not get a particular toy,” Gottlieb wrote in his “Out of the Toy Box” blog. “Delivering disappointment goes with the job of parenting.”

    How’s that for a little dose of reality?

  32. RealEstater Says:

    If you have children, or if you plan to have children, then sooner or later you’d realize what your kids need is not any particular toy, but something much more “down to earth” — they need you to buy a RBA house. Here are a few key reasons:

    1. It’s not ideal to raise kid(s) in an apartment.
    2. The best gift for your child is a good school district.
    3. When it comes time to fund their college, you can borrow against an home equity line of credit.
    4. By the time your offsprings are in need of a house, home prices would likely be well out of reach. You can give them a head start by buying now, and later help them buy it from you (another win-win).
    5. When you die, your children can inherit your house (as anon is well aware).

  33. RealEstater Says:

    Just did a quick check. It’s possible to borrow up to $500K from BofA via a Home Equity Line of Credit at only 4.74%! Instead of saving for college, it’s way better to put the money into a house; the appreciation with leverage will easiy beat 4.74%.

  34. bob Says:

    RE,
    I can’t tell if you’re kidding or not on that one. No, I don’t agree that you HAVE to buy a house for your kids. I know a lot of parents get all hand-wringy when they have little bundles of joy and feel that they simply must buy a home right after the kid is born to get em’ into the best schools, yadda yadda yadda. But the same can easily be done by renting. First of all, kids really don’t care or even comprehend the difference between renting and buying. The folks who rent my parents rental house have been doing so for 12 years. The kids are practically almost grown. No big deal. The kids will move out and Mom and Dad will have more options.

    The reasons people generally use for buying a home in times when the home actually costs a lot more over the equivalent rental… like having to possibly move or not being able to paint the walls their own color is right up there with buying one because they think their kids want one. Again- small issues blown out of proportion. Mostly psychological or tied to old fashioned peer pressure.

    I do not support the idea of taking equity out of a house for college loans either. You should be investing in mutual funds and Roth IRAs to do that. If you have to use your home equity to do so… time to teach the kiddies the value of work… and let them pay for it themselves. Its a good character builder anyway and it will make them take college more seriously.

    Lastly, Mom and Dad will probably sell out and move to WA,OR, or NV since if they bought in the RBA, the home is their primary retirement plan, hence the kids won’t get any of it anyway.

    If we did decide to have kids, which we’re not, the first thing I’d do is move out of the RBA. Bingo- a whole ton of problems solved immediately.

  35. get real Says:

    RealEstater, just shut up. No one believes one of the stupid things in your post. The real estate bubble has destroyed the world economy and you’re going on like a Bimmer leasing whore with a cheap set of boobs.

    The RBA is starting to sink just like the Titanic.

  36. anon Says:

    LOL #32 certainly brought a smile to my face.

    What’s better, is that since real estatate always goes up, the sooner you lock in your purchase price, the less you’ll have to pay in property taxes in the long run. Prop 13 means that your children will share in this benefit as well. Think of the savings!

    With respect to #33, that couldn’t have come at a better time. As WG has pointed out before, rates keep coming down and I’ve been thinking about taking out a HELOC for a little while now. 4.74% is pretty cheap money…I wonder, however if it will get even cheaper….We’ll see!

  37. bob Says:

    It will be a good day when people stop thinking of their homes as nothing more than a giant ATM machine.

  38. anon Says:

    Bob, think of it as a loan secured by an interest in real estate.

    The reason that the rate is so low is because the risk to the bank is low as they can foreclose on the home to recoup monies owed.

    There’s a difference between free money from real estate and using a home as collateral to secure a low interest rate.

    Bob, if you take a loan out are you going to pay a high interest rate or a low one?

  39. RealEstater Says:

    Bob says,
    >>time to teach the kiddies the value of work… and let them pay for it themselves.

    So what have you learned? That you’re priced out forever no matter how hard you work?

  40. get real Says:

    RE: “So what have you learned? That you’re priced out forever no matter how hard you work?”

    Ah, considering that fools like you were only recently saying that there was no RE Bubble, and then that values in the RBA (and other prime areas in this California) would not fall, it’s getting old to hear your propaganda.

    You’re like the former press secretary for Saddam Hussein.

    You’re nothing more than a troll now.

  41. anon Says:

    “You’re nothing more than a troll now.”

    This has always been the case.

  42. RealEstater Says:

    anon,

    Good job with #36. Your points are right on.

    get real,

    Name calling doesn’t demonstrate anything except that you’re a troll.

  43. nomadic Says:

    bob says: …since if they bought in the RBA, the home is their primary retirement plan…

    No, there are plenty of folks who can (or did) buy a house and still max out their 401k plans.

    anon, doesn’t #33 make you want to take out one of those low interest HELOC’s to pay down a marginally higher (interest rate) mortgage? ;-) Too bad that rate may adjust back up next month.

  44. Herve Says:

    Here are a few key reasons: [...]

    :-)

  45. WillowGlenner Says:

    I just initiated a refi today, 5% 15 year conforming. I think rates could fall even lower but that will likely happen during the closing process for this loan and I can lock down. I have wanted to refi this one for 2+ years and missed the window both times, third times a charm. This will definitely put money in my pocket.

  46. anon Says:

    WG, you’re thinking that now is the trough?

  47. RealEstater Says:

    nomadic says,

    >>No, there are plenty of folks who can (or did) buy a house and still max out their 401k plans.

    For me it’s a matter of principle. There has never been a year since I started working that I did not max out my 401K.

  48. RealEstater Says:

    WG,

    I wonder why you would go for a 15 year mortgage. When the rate is low across the board, you want to go for a long term rate.

  49. madhaus Says:

    The more you borrow the more you save! The more you borrow the bigger your tax deduction! The more you borrow the longer it will take you to pay it back! The more you borrow the faster you can dive under water!

    Oh boy! I’m jumping on the bandwagon, ‘cuz I’m with the band!

  50. bob Says:

    So what have you learned? That you’re priced out forever no matter how hard you work?

    Dude.. Like I’ve said repeatedly to your deaf ears, I have PLENTY of money, and definitely enough to buy a home here in the Bay Area if it were my Life’s goal.I’ve done it all by old-fashioned saving and frugality. No little hoops or latest wiz-bang get rich quick snake oil schemes.All I do is rent cheap, and sock away cash.

    Again like I’ve told you a bazillion times, I’d rather buy somewhere cheaper and retire early. Its really that simple. How hard is that for you to understand? I’m not at all jealous of you or anyone else with their little overpriced POS homes here. Its stupid in my opinion to pay these prices. Then again, that’s my opinion. So no- I am not priced out forever>/i>. I just don’t drink the same brand of Kool aid that you drink.

  51. nomadic Says:

    bob, ever hear the phrase “pissing in the wind?”

    :-)

  52. Pralay Says:

    Logic by Blondie Bumstead. Shameless hucksterism by our friendly local “average tech guy.”
    ——-

    :) I guess I missed this dessert in thanksgiving weekend. And don’t forget that the name of of the state in context – Arkansas. “More you buy, more you save” – that comes right from a small town called Bentonville, AR.

  53. Pralay Says:

    LOL #32 certainly brought a smile to my face.

    What’s better, is that since real estatate always goes up, the sooner you lock in your purchase price, the less you’ll have to pay in property taxes in the long run.
    ——

    Anon,
    And those “key reasons” coming from a neutral guy who does not have vested interest in RBA real estate market. I thought our Roger The Realtor would talking about how RBA homes are great investment. He would be saying that RBA homes are selling over asking price everywhere.
    Instead “they[children] need you to buy a RBA house”!!!!! :)

  54. madhaus Says:

    I guess I missed this dessert in thanksgiving weekend. And don’t forget that the name of of the state in context – Arkansas. “More you buy, more you save” – that comes right from a small town called Bentonville, AR.

    Blondie math and Wal-Mart budgeting. Two ways to guarantee that you too can spend yourself into the RBA, but no guarantee you’ll get to keep it.

  55. RealEstater Says:

    Bob says,
    >>Dude.. Like I’ve said repeatedly to your deaf ears, I have PLENTY of money, and definitely enough to buy a home here in the Bay Area if it were my Life’s goal.

    Dude, if your financial well-being would be shaken by a home purchase, you cannot afford a home by definition. Technically you can, but realistically you can’t. Saying you can buy a house in Tennessee is like saying you can pass kindergarden.

  56. bob Says:

    No RE… you’re misunderstanding me. I have the financial means to get into a home in the RBA if I reallllyyy wanted to without coming close to putting myself under financially. I can also easily afford a home in (name other cheaper city). Its just that in the case of those other places, I’d have lots of leftover cash. Thus you hopefully see my point. Besides, buying a home in TN,TX,NC, or anywhere else would be financially sensible and a better “value” given my personal position. Everyone has a different idea of what “good” is, and yes- there’s plenty of people who prefer other parts of the country over California. Thus your argument falls flat.

    I also don’t have to jump through all the silly little hoops that people like you do to get into a house here ( renting out rooms and so on) and find it comical that you brag about your house daily here. Bragging about what? A silly little house? big whoop.

    Financial prudence my friend.

  57. madhaus Says:

    But bob, if you continue to thumb your nose at us we’ll end up being angry homedebtors. We can’t allow that to happen, so we’re going to gang up on you for not drinking this delicious Kool-Aid.

    Come on, bob, everyone is jumping off a cliff! You don’t want to be all alone up there, do you? Jump! Jump! Jump!

  58. Pralay Says:

    Come on, bob, everyone is jumping off a cliff! You don’t want to be all alone up there, do you? Jump! Jump! Jump!
    ——

    Your children [they] need you to buy a RBA house jump off the cliff.

  59. bob Says:

    Has the Cliff got a tire swing? If it does, I’m in.

  60. anon Says:

    Tire swing? Who cares about a tire swing?

    Bob, you’ll refinance grow wings after jumping. Don’t worry.

  61. madhaus Says:

    Come on, bob! There’s a huge long line waiting for you to jump! If you don’t jump now they’re probably going to PUSH YOU.

    Just sign this and initial 1340 times, please.

  62. anon Says:

    Now’s a good time to jump off a cliff.

    Don’t get priced out stuck on the cliff…Forever.

    (ominous echo) Forever…Forever…forever…ever…ever..ever..ever….

  63. bob Says:

    Here’s a story since we’re talking about cliffs. When I was young and stupid, me and my best friend worked at this crappy diner. After work we went to this hangout place on the lake. There was a bunch of other kids there. Anyhow, it was a huge rock that went out over the lake. It was about a 15 foot jump and in the summer, it was great to go jumping off of there. Being night time, naturally you couldn’t see to the water. I jumped off of there and after being in the air awhile realized it was a hell of a lot higher than 15 feet that day.Unknown to me, They had been doing maintenance work on the dam’s generator impellers and had drained the water down around 20-30 feet. The result was that I jumped over 40 feet down. I was lucky to not land funny. Nobody had bothered to tell us about that either and thought it was funny when I climbed back up.

    Moral of the story: I’ve done some actual diving off of cliffs. No thanks, I did my share of it!

  64. anon Says:

    No, bob. You’ve got it wrong again.

    The moral of the story is that, like signing up for a loan one can’t afford, even if you jump off a cliff without having done adequate preparation…

    You may fall a little further than expected, but you will be OK. And that’s a ‘fact.’

  65. anon Says:

    Especially if you’re jumping off an RBA cliff. It’s special here.

  66. madhaus Says:

    anon, you anonymous blithering idiot! You got the wrong moral!

    The point is, bob jumped off the cliff and where did he end up? Under water! Where could he have ended up? Torn up by the dam’s generator impellers! Why that’s the equivalent of getting a foreclosure notice and having the repo man take away the Vette at the same time!

  67. nomadic Says:

    Speaking of cliffs…and rocks. We now know where RE the hamster lives! Under a rock.

    …the National Bureau of Economic Research finally confirmed what everyone not living under a rock already knew: the economy is in a recession.

    The idiots at CNN-Money also don’t realize that Monday’s drop in the market was simply normal profit-taking.

    The rout in stocks appeared to be led mostly by economic concerns: the latest monthly data about manufacturing activity and construction activity painted an increasingly bleak picture of the economy.

    full article here

  68. DreamT Says:

    bob, your story is too depressing. There was nobody to bail you out of the water!

  69. Herve Says:

    > [...] take away the Vette at the same time

    Come on madhaus, you’re going to attract RealEstate’s ire. Don’t talk about cars. Only RealEstater, with his his level of testosterone, can tell us about cars or anything with more than 3 cylinders. ;-)

  70. nomadic Says:

    Herve, you forgot about this little 3-cylinder gem.

  71. Herve Says:

    True, I had forgotten about the not-so-Smart. By the way, I meant “with his high level”.

    Speaking of cars, it looks like this dealer is discounting. anon, which one would you get?

  72. anon Says:

    LOL. Those are a bit out of my price range, Herve… But I’ve been looking at one of these: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/934118544.html
    …for the right price.

  73. madhaus Says:

    Why are you asking anon? You’re asking someone who bought a Cayenne forgawdsake. A stupid honking gold-plated SUV. Not a finely tuned driving machine, but a box on wheels that says I don’t know how to drive this thing but I’ll hit you if you don’t move.

    Ask someone with taste. And I say I want the Lambo. Mmmmmmmmmmercialago.

  74. Pralay Says:

    We now know where RE the hamster lives! Under a rock.
    ——–

    Tell me, tell me, tell me more about it. Does it have a name engraved on it?

  75. Herve Says:

    Please anon, no. No. No BMW. BMW drivers are annoying :-)

    madhaus, good choice. The Reventon is just scary, in a good way. You should stick with a Pacer though. You know, being a woman and all ;-)

  76. madhaus Says:

    Herve, I want this one, really. But I was being polite by not expecting any of those angry renters to spend too much on me.

  77. Herve Says:

    Well madhaus this is your lucky day: one of them is for sale here. I’ll add you to my list for xmas.

  78. Pralay Says:

    Guys,
    As someone said here already, please respect the forum and the other participants here. This is a real estate forum, not a forum for automobile.

    BTW, talking about engraved rock, that’s definitely real estate related. A rock rests on real estate.

  79. Herve Says:

    A car is parked in a garage, so it’s real estate related.

  80. anon Says:

    “Please anon, no. No. No BMW. BMW drivers are annoying”

    What, my posts haven’t proved this? Seems like an evne more perfect match now.

    I’ve just got this thing for twin turbos… lol

  81. madhaus Says:

    A car is parked in a garage, so it’s real estate related.

    It’s only real-estate related if you park the car on the driveway and convert the garage to an illegal in-law unit.

  82. anon Says:

    And the car into a maid’s quarters.

  83. RealEstater Says:

    Pralay says,
    >>BTW, talking about engraved rock, that’s definitely real estate related. A rock rests on real estate.

    More circular logic!

  84. RealEstater Says:

    anon says,
    >>I’ve just got this thing for twin turbos… lol

    A car only needs a twin turbo if the engine is inadequate without it. In other words, a car with a twin turbo is like a woman with a push-up bra.

  85. Herve Says:

    > [...] is like a woman with a push-up bra

    I love inadequacy.

  86. anon Says:

    Looks like someone doesn’t even have…one turbo.

  87. bob Says:

    We went to the SF auto show a few weeks back. Ferrari, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, and Massaratti had cars there. My Wife’s comment was that they all looked like the same car and resembled giant door wedges on wheels. There you have it men- if you’re going to go out and impress da’ ladies then it doesn’t work on all ladies apparently.

    My favorite car there wasn’t actually available to the public. Its the first purpose-built police car built by a Atlanta company called Carbon Motor Corp.

    http://www.carbonmotors.com/

    It runs on diesel or biodiesel, can actually accelerate faster than most high performance sports cars, and is estimated to save each city millions of dollars in fuel and maintenance costs. Kind of wish they’d make them for the general public.

    If money were absolutely no concern and I could buy any stupidly insane car, I’d probably get this one:

    http://www.supercars.net/cars/3621.html

    World’s fastest production car at 255.83 MPH. Believe it or not, its an American company called Shelby SSC and the car is generically called the Ultimate Aero Twin Turbo.

    Realistically, If I wanted a new sports car, I’d get one of these because you don’t see many of them and the styling is fantastic:
    http://www.dodge.com/en/2009/challenger/

  88. RealEstater Says:

    Bob says,
    >>Realistically, If I wanted a new sports car, I’d get one of these because you don’t see many of them and the styling is fantastic:
    http://www.dodge.com/en/2009/challenger/

    They did a good job copying the old one. Chrysler has been pretty good at retro designs, but the mechanicals still lack the sophistication of the foreign brands. If you look carefully, it’s not hard to find cheap trims either.

  89. RealEstater Says:

    From the Wall Street Journal:

    Consider three surveys, all from October.

    In a poll of 2,000 adults, real-estate-data provider Zillow.com found that 61% believed the value of their home would either remain level or rise over the next six months. Another survey of more than 1,000 homeowners, sponsored by real-estate-services firm Realogy Corp., found that 91% thought that owning a home was the best long-term investment they could make. And an online survey of 5,000 people commissioned by Citigroup found that just 32% believed it was a good time to invest in stocks — but 51% said it was a good time to buy a home.

    “I just believe in real estate,” says Jason Schram, a lawyer in Chicago who has bought two rental properties this year at what he considers fire-sale prices. “I’ve seen over and over people I know build wealth through rental real estate, and that’s the path I intend taking, even though it’s a bit bumpy at the moment.”

    ************

    Moral of the story? The people in this forum are mostly in the minority.

  90. bob Says:

    Nothing new. Most homeowners ( yourself likely included) believe their homes are worth more than their actual value. The report only proves once again the pulse of the ignorant masses.

    And about eh Challenger… its a $20,000 car. What do you expect? If I were paying 60k for a bimmer, it better damned well be better than a 20k car.

  91. nomadic Says:

    RE, I thought you disdained the herd mentality.

  92. Prof. Bleen Says:

    In a poll of 2,000 adults, real-estate-data provider Zillow.com found that 61% believed the value of their home would either remain level or rise over the next six months. Another survey of more than 1,000 homeowners, sponsored by real-estate-services firm Realogy Corp., found that 91% thought that owning a home was the best long-term investment they could make. And an online survey of 5,000 people commissioned by Citigroup found that just 32% believed it was a good time to invest in stocks — but 51% said it was a good time to buy a home.

    And before the mid-16th century, everyone in the world, with the exception of one or two crazy Greek astronomers, believed that the Sun revolved around the Earth.

    **********

    Moral of the story? Reality doesn’t obey public opinion polls.

  93. RealEstater Says:

    nomadic,

    There’s a major distinction. Herd mentality points to a group of people rushing to do something. The polls above are talking about something more fundamental —
    what people think about investing in real estate, at a time when most are not rushing in.

  94. WillowGlenner Says:

    RE, if I am refi-ing a property that I’ve had for a while, and the rent on the place is more than the mortgage I choose to go 15 year these days. 15 yr is 1/4 below 30 year, its a few hundred more per month for the place in question but since I’m so far ahead on it, I think I might as well pay it off. You are correct, technically 30 year is probably wiser if you were trying to completely manage your cashflow and buy up as much as you can with FCF. I’m not really doing that, I might buy one other property this cycle but thats about it. I’m older than most of you hear, approaching 50. I have a few properties in mind in the 400-450K range but they are short sales which means I need to wait until they go to foreclosure to buy. The problem with foreclosures NOW, as opposed to last july when I bought my last one, is that investors have come back in the market so there are multiple offer situations.

  95. Pralay Says:

    Herd mentality points to a group of people rushing to do something.
    ————-

    LOL! New definition of herd mentality!
    And don’t forget the original context where our Roger The Realtor said:

    Bob thinks he’s doing something smart and unique, when in fact he’s just following herd mentality.

    I guess Bob was rushing to do something. What? Nature’s call?

  96. bob Says:

    RE,
    There’s a disconnect with what you’re suggesting with the article posted. Herd mentality in the real estate market right now is that housing is bad. The fact that the only thing selling are bottom feeder homes is indicative of that.

    But people who’ve already bought want reassurance that they’ve made the right decision. Nobody wants to admit that they might have either screwed up, mis-timed the market, overpaid, or are losing equity. Its sort of a self-comfort device to deny reality. The reality is that if you bought from 2004-2007, then you’ve probably lost value. Its a hard pill to swallow. I would put money on it that you would never admit that your home has possibly lost value or has even flat lined.

  97. bob Says:

    WG,
    You have definitely got some balls buying investment property this close to retirement. I will give you that.

  98. Pralay Says:

    RE, I thought you disdained the herd mentality.
    ——–

    Nomadic,
    How article-title about the people with herd mentality? Homeowners cling to false optimism about own home

    The housing market may have bust, but many homeowners are still living in a bubble.

    Despite dismal housing headlines and reports showing falling prices nationwide, owners in some once-hot areas still believe their home is gaining value or at least holding its own. And by hanging onto too-high expectations, sellers are unwittingly keeping the market from finding a bottom.
    …..
    …..
    Likewise, an unscientific study released last week by real-estate Web site Zillow.com found that half of homeowners polled think their home’s price has increased or stayed the same in the past year.
    …..
    …..
    “It’s the mine is better than yours mentality,” Herndon said.

    So it is not just herd mentality. It is mine-is-better-than-yours mentality too. :)

  99. nomadic Says:

    Oh. Well that makes it all right then, Pralay!

    Because of course the hamster’s is better! (Whatever it may be.)

  100. bob Says:

    Its sort of like the old parable that

    Comedy is when someone else falls off a ladder and breaks their neck. Tragedy is when I get a paper cut

  101. Pralay Says:


    The polls above are talking about something more fundamental –
    what people think about investing in real estate, at a time when most are not rushing in.

    ———–

    Hmmmm, fundamental? Fundamental or false optimism?

    Of course our Roger The Brickster does not provide the link to original article whenever it is inconvenient. Here it goes:

    The Future for Home Prices

    There it says –

    Over the past few years, Americans have had a brutal lesson in the risks of real estate. House prices have crashed more than 35% in some parts of the country, millions of people are losing their homes to foreclosure, and banks are failing.
    ….
    ….
    Those hoping for a quick rebound are likely to be disappointed. Economists and other pros generally say home prices won’t bottom out before the second half of 2009, and some don’t see a bottom until 2011 or 2012. Even when they stop falling, prices may scrape along the bottom of the rut for years.

  102. bob Says:

    I’d buy the 2011-2012 timeline. I was listening to the radio yesterday and report came on discussing future foreclosure activity. If you think there’s a lot of foreclosures now, you ain’t seen nothing yet. As it stands now, foreclosures account for 4% of the market. By next year they’re projected to jump by 50% more to 8%.

    Seeing as how just 4% of the market being foreclosures dramatically impacted the market, imagine what 8% will do? It’ll continue to eat away at values. The foreclosures will have to be flushed from the system before any bottom can be reached, and as it looks from this report and the fact that there’ still tons of foreclosures out there along with non-foreclosures, it’ll be at least another 2 years before that occurs, and even then, it’ll just be the bottom and not necessarily appreciation.

    Most people seem to be incapable of recognizing that the most recent housing bubble was probably a once in a lifetime freak occurrence. There will be some bitter tears shed by many an investor once that’s more universally accepted.

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