August 27, 2010

Bay Area has the most millionaires… almost

New York Has the Most Millionaires

By Robert Frank

New York’s millionaire population has now surpassed the boom times of 2007.

According to the new Metro Wealth Index, created by consulting firm Capgemini, the New York Metropolitan area had 650,000 high-net worth individuals, or people with $1 million or more in investible assets in 2009. That is 18.7% higher than in 2008.

Once again, the New York area topped the list of metro-area wealth centers. Its total was greater than the combined total of the next three runners up–Los Angeles, Chicago and Washington.

Of the top 10, Houston posted the the fastest growth, at 28.9%. But all enjoyed strong growth.

Here are the tallies of millionaires for the top 10, along with the percentage growth:

New York – 667,200, +18.7%

Los Angeles – 235,800, +13.3%

Chicago – 198,100, +15.1%

Washington, D.C. – 152,400 +19.3%

San Francisco – 138,300 +14.5%

Philadelphia – 104,100, +20.1%

Boston – 102,300, + 14.4%

Detroit – 89,100, +12.1%

Houston –- 88,200, +28.9%

San Jose — 86,500, +24.5%

Yeah, but if you add San Jose and San Francisco together, the Bay Area would be ranked at #3 after Los Angeles – at 224,800. And this probably excludes all the thousands of millionaires in Atherton, Palo Alto, etc. That’s probably at least 12,000 or more, which puts us at #2 with 236,800!

And if you think about it – NY has 8 million people. That’s just .08 millionaires per capita. From San Francisco to San Jose, there’s 3,236,662 (and this includes non Real Bay Area like Gilroy!). That puts us at… .07 millionaires per capita.

Damnit! So close! Come on people! Let’s get some more millionaires going out there. Facebook! IPO already!

Comments (98) -- Posted by: burbed @ 5:17 am

98 Responses to “Bay Area has the most millionaires… almost”

  1. SEA Says:

    “High Net Worth Individuals are defined as those having investable assets of $1 million or more, excluding primary residence, collectibles, consumables, and consumer durables.”

    Simply include the primary residence, and the entire RBA would be included, and we all know, through our 100% independent appraisals, that NY property is not really worth that much. Thus including the primary residence puts the RBA at the top of the list, right?

  2. maryjane Says:

    Only if you “OWN” the house. If the bank owns it – not so much.

  3. SEA Says:

    maryjane- We’re talking about the RBA here. Even if you owe something on the home, it’s going up in value so fast–those little, pesky loans don’t matter.

  4. nomadic Says:

    woohoo! Detroit is still above San Jose. Incredible; old money beats new money.

  5. Real Estater Says:

    Dow up 165 today. Except for some isolated perturbations, DOW is above 10K most of the year. The economic worry is mostly a media event. The talk of double dip is premature.

  6. Petsmart groomer Says:

    > Except for some isolated perturbations, DOW is above 10K most of the year.

    Cool. Just like in 1999.

  7. DreamT Says:

    who’s talking about double dipping?

  8. Petsmart groomer Says:

    > who’s talking about double dipping?

    I think Alex was at some point.

  9. A. Lewis Says:

    Income inequality is increasing.

    However, one should expect more and more millionaires as long as there is positive inflation. Eventually, the poverty line will be $1M annual household income.

    People have to learn to redefine what millionaire means. Traditional American storytelling has a millionaire playing golf, with a giant house, servants, a boat, world travel.

    A millionaire in America today might well be struggling to put two kids in college, save enough for retirement and pay off their primary residence, pay for health insurance, etc., with both spouses working full time.

    Having $1M free and clear of debt is still a nice chunk of change in America, but it’s not what it used to be. It’s not “f*** you” money anymore.

    At least inflation is low (or negative) right now…

  10. A. Lewis Says:

    #5 – I love how you only post about the days the Dow goes up. Is it not equally notable to you the days the Dow goes down?

    And what exactly is your interpretation of the Dow being over 10k most of the year? That there are no economic worries in all of America? Maybe you should have stuck to your party line of there being no economic worries for homeowners in the RBA. Though wrong, that’s easier to defend.

    For most of America, there are lots of economic worries. The most worries since the Great Depression, in fact. Do you know what the unemployment rate is? Do you know how many homeowners are underwater? Do you now much health insurance premiums are going up? Do you know how many states and cities have a crippling budget deficit? Do you know how little most Americans have saved for retirement? Do you know how likely we are to have another financial crisis?

    Do you understand that with GDP growth of +0.1%, we would probably technically not be in a recession, but it would feel like it for most Americans?

  11. SEA Says:

    How much is the DOW up this week?

  12. Real Estater Says:

    A,

    Do you know how cash rich companies are? That’s why there are so many mergers and acquisitions going on (look at the HP vs. Dell example). Do you know how many financially established people are out there buying RBA properties? In fact, trying going out to dinner tonight. Chances are, you’d be waiting in line.

  13. Real Estater Says:

    >>How much is the DOW up this week?

    Useless tactical question. I already told you the Dow hasn’t dropped on a yearly basis despite all the talks of recession.

  14. bob Says:

    But RE… the problem is that the DOW has barely moved AT ALL for most of the year. Sure- its been above 10k…. woo-hoo. But putting that aside the overall economy is rather ill. I’m sure you’re well-aware of the news this week on housing… the worst in a decade. That’s even with interest rates at insanely low levels. People aren’t buying because the job market sucks and so too does the overall economy. So the DOW went up 165 today. Who cares?

  15. SEA Says:

    Let’s look back 10 years.

    DOW – Last Friday in August
    2010: 10,150.65
    2009: 9,544.20
    2008: 11,543.55
    2007: 13,357.74
    2006: 11,284.05
    2005: 10,397.29
    2004: 10,195.01
    2003: 9,415.82
    2002: 8,663.50
    2001: 9,949.75
    2000: 11,192.63

    Yep, you’re right, we are up from 2009.

  16. Pralay Says:

    I already told you the Dow hasn’t dropped on a yearly basis despite all the talks of recession.
    —-

    Fake Estater,
    Don’t be so negative. Let’s not use the D-word “dropped”. Let say like this:

    DOW has nowhere to go but up right now.

    Wait a minute. You already did on on February when DOW was 10058. Today it is 10150. What a great run-up for “nowhere to go but up”!

  17. Pralay Says:

    Do you know how many financially established people are out there buying RBA properties?
    —–

    Real Estater knows. ;)

  18. madhaus Says:

    Do you know how many financially established people are out there buying RBA properties?

    Evidently not enough. We need more self-starters like this entrepreneur.

  19. nomadic Says:

    Pralay, funny you mention a “D” word. Time magazine just wrote about Bernanke dropping the “deflation” D-word.

    http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2010/08/27/bernanke-drops-the-d-word/

    I noticed it because while at the bookstore this evening, I saw the latest copy of Time on the shelf, with “The Case Against Homeownership” sprawled across the cover. The funniest part isn’t online; it was a question about whether owning a home helps people or turns them into debt slaves. I think everything has come full circle and am inclined to believe that we are well and truly at the bottom now.

    Abridged version of the print article:
    http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2013684,00.html

  20. Real Estater Says:

    Another mega merger all cleared for take-off.

  21. Real Estater Says:

    >>I saw the latest copy of Time on the shelf, with “The Case Against Homeownership” sprawled across the cover. The funniest part isn’t online; it was a question about whether owning a home helps people or turns them into debt slaves.

    Let’s ponder this for a moment. Time is a national magazine. The average home price in this country is something like $180K. How can anybody become a debt slave by owning such a home? If you’re getting foreclosed out of the average home, I’m sorry, you’re not making the cut.

  22. SEA Says:

    “How can anybody become a debt slave by owning such a home?”

    Did you forget income?

    Anytime long-term cash out is much greater than cash in, there is likely a problem. Similarly, anytime long-term expenses are much greater than income, there’s likely a problem.

  23. Real Estater Says:

    SEA,

    Not sure what you’re smoking today. The price of an average home in this country is equivalent to a couple of years of salary for a new grad from a good school.

  24. SEA Says:

    Let’s forget about the recent grads making $90k+ and talk about the others. Are they really average?

  25. anon Says:

    Oh yeah. Most, if not all, itt tech grads are easily making six figures. Plus they have no debt. Couple that with their family money and you have them buying 1+ million dollar homes with a DTI of less than 10%.

    That’s just the way it is here in the bay area.

  26. anon Says:

    … And that’s an itt tech grad! Think about the ones from a good school!

  27. nomadic Says:

    I shouldn’t even acknowledge RE’s asinine post, but he’s definitely forgetting the discussions we’ve had on here regarding the stupid amounts of money new graduates owe for mediocre educations from average schools.

    And the fact that before the ridiculous housing boom, houses were “supposed” to “only” cost 3x annual income.

  28. Pralay Says:

    Time is a national magazine. The average home price in this country is something like $180K.
    —-

    Fake Estater is either intellectual dishonest or intellectually incompetent. AGAIN.

    When it comes to home price he mentions “average home price”, but when it comes to income ( in post #23), he becomes selective and talks about only “salary for a new grad from a good school”.

  29. anon Says:

    Hilarious. While I’m in a spoon feeding mood let’s have a little fun.

    Assuming these new grads actually make 90k (they don’t) and assuming they have no other debt (they do) then they should be easily able to afford a house that is 3x their income.

    Gosh. I just can’t figure out why anyone would say that homes are stilloverpriced.

  30. Real Estater Says:

    All,

    If there’s a house available for $180K in your area, which of you would like to tell me you cannot afford it?

  31. DreamT Says:

    I must confess I don’t have $180k cash ready to be dispensed on a house. On the other hand, my mortgage lender can probably afford it, with my help.

  32. anon Says:

    All,

    If there is a pile of garbage available for $180 in your area, which of you would like to tell me that you can’t afford it?

  33. Real Estater Says:

    DreamT says,

    >>I must confess I don’t have $180k cash ready to be dispensed on a house.

    Did I say you have to pay cash for the house? Are you saying you cannot afford the 20% down payment?

    Actually, I’m surprised you don’t have $180K. I thought you said you’re a VP level person? What the heck happened to your income? Are you a title rich but compensation poor employee?

  34. DreamT Says:

    “Are you saying you cannot afford the 20% down payment?”
    You were asking about affording an $180k house. Not 20% of it.

    “I thought you said you’re a VP level person?”
    I thought I said C-level?

    You wouldn’t have comprehension problems now would you, Real Estater? Don’t you need to have a clue to handle large scale system integrations?

  35. anon Says:

    That must be a rhetorical question because we’ve been shown time and time again he doesn’t have a clue…

  36. anon Says:

    Just lol at post 33 it confuses income with cash reserves.

  37. anon Says:

    Just look at post 33 it confuses income with cash reserves.

  38. Lionel Says:

    What would Sunday morning be without a cup of joe and idiocy from RE? —

    “Dow up 165 today. Except for some isolated perturbations, DOW is above 10K most of the year. The economic worry is mostly a media event. The talk of double dip is premature.”

    An alternate opinion from a data-driven source —

    If we realize that the total economic pain inflicted by a contraction event is a function of both the daily contraction rate and the duration of the event, then the best measure of that pain is simply the area in the above chart between each of the curves and the gray “zero” axis. The “Great Recession” of 2008 accumulated slightly over 793 negative-percent-contraction-days. Within a week, current 2010 event will be over 500, and even should it suddenly reverse and trace out a 2008-like recovery arc, the total pain will be very near 2008’s total. Given our data on how political “Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt” negatively impacted consumer spending on discretionary durable goods in 2008, we anticipate no miraculous upsurge in U.S. consumer discretionary spending before November 2.

    Barring some sudden reversal in consumer attitudes and habits, the 2010 economic slowdown will be longer and at least as painful as the one experienced in 2008. Furthermore, the shape of this contraction event indicates that it is probably not an independent “double dip”, but simply a continuation of the “Great Recession” of 2008 after a few quarters of now lapsed consumer stimulation.

    http://www.consumerindexes.com/index.html

  39. Real Estater Says:

    DreamT says,

    >>You were asking about affording an $180k house. Not 20% of it.
    Really? Housing affordability is judge by ability to pay in cash? Who agrees with the logic here? Please stand up and be counted.

    >>“I thought you said you’re a VP level person?”
    >I thought I said C-level?

    I’m really impressed by your level, but where’s the dough?

  40. SEA Says:

    Real Estater- “Housing affordability is judge by ability to pay in cash?”

    I really doubt Real Estater could pay with his good looks.

  41. nomadic Says:

    I’m really impressed by your level, but where’s the dough?

    A concept you used to pretend to understand: tax shelters.

  42. DreamT Says:

    “Housing affordability is judge <sic> by ability to pay in cash?”
    Not just ability. If all you have in the bank is $180k, you can hardly claim you can afford an $180k house. How about leftover cash reserves?
    As for the “where’s the dough” question, being 10+ years younger than you are allows us some life choice luxuries that you probably no longer can afford :)

  43. anon Says:

    Lol. Re is impressed by a guy on the internet’s level.

  44. Pralay Says:

    Just look at post 33 it confuses income with cash reserves.
    —-

    Not only #33 confuses income with cash reserve, by starting his post with an “IF” he nullifies his own original argument made in post #21.

    You won’t find any dumber than Real Estater. He is as concrete as a sidewalk.

  45. Pralay Says:

    Don’t you need to have a clue to handle large scale system integrations?
    —–

    That would be too much to ask from a 24×7 IT support guy.

  46. Pralay Says:

    Actually, I’m surprised you don’t have $180K.
    —-

    Fake Estater’s conprehension skill is amazing, as usual. I think we should make Fake Estater as the poster-child of California public school. DreamT said “cash ready to be dispensed on a house”. That does not mean he does not have $180K.

  47. Pralay Says:

    As for the “where’s the dough” question, being 10+ years younger than you are allows us some life choice luxuries that you probably no longer can afford
    —-

    Don’t tell me that I am arguing with a middle aged grumpy guy with mid-life crisis (although it explains his misguided hormone craving for “aircraft quality feel”). If so, he definitely needs some respect. Should we call him Uncle Estater next time?

  48. madhaus Says:

    #34, #45: Large scale system integrations? Is that what multi-timezone multi-pronged multi-modal multi-country multi-departmental multi-company multi-focus multi-continental multi-mission MEGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA project means?

    I thought it meant “multi-manufactured made-up-in-the-moment mule manure.”

    #42: You’re more than 10 years younger and you’ve already lapped our favorite troll careerwise? No wonder he’s such an Angry Owner.

  49. maryjane Says:

    I guess wisdom doesn’t always come with years.

  50. Pralay Says:

    No wonder he’s such an Angry Owner.
    —–

    I will call him Real Angry Insecure Estater Uncle.

  51. anon Says:

    Insecure estater?

  52. Real Estater Says:

    Pralay,

    DreamT already bought a house that costs more than $180K. All he’s saying is that he’s tapped out by his Santa Clara house, and doesn’t have enough juice to spend another $36K (20% of $180K). After all, the last layoff experience put him out by a year. Sounds pretty pathetic for a C-level guy, if you ask me.

    How about you? Can you afford a $180K property?

  53. Real Estater Says:

    Secure anon,

    Can you afford a $180K property?

  54. Real Estater Says:

    LOL. System integrations, 24X7 support, real estate broker… I sure have many jobs in a down economy!

  55. Pralay Says:

    All he’s saying is that he’s tapped out by his Santa Clara house, and doesn’t have enough juice to spend another $36K (20% of $180K).
    —-

    Uncle Estater,
    No, that’s not what he said. Now you are trying to win the argument by putting your own words in his mouth. That’s pretty pathetic.

  56. Real Estater Says:

    Pralay,

    If you have trouble comprehending what DreamT said, there are number of private elementary school in your area I can refer you to.

  57. Pralay Says:

    Uncle Estater,
    He said “I don’t have $180k cash ready to be dispensed on a house“.

    He did not say he does not have $180K. Your lack of comprehension skill is nothing new.

  58. Pralay Says:

    After all, the last layoff experience put him out by a year. Sounds pretty pathetic for a C-level guy, if you ask me.
    —-

    Translation: After all the humiliation about system integrator guy, old grumpy person, angry owner, I decided to counter-attack.

  59. Real Estater Says:

    >>He did not say he does not have $180K. Your lack of comprehension skill is nothing new.

    Your lack of comprehension skill is the cause of your confusion. Did I even ask him whether he has $180k?

  60. Pralay Says:

    BTW Uncle Estater,
    As you have serious comprehension problem, let me tell why I am accusing you for putting your own words in DreamT’s mouth. You said DreamT “doesn’t have enough juice to spend another $36K“.

    DreamT never mentioned or implied that $36K number in #31.

  61. Real Estater Says:

    Pralay,

    If we need translation, we’d ask someone who has some basic English skills.

  62. SEA Says:

    Slave Estater- “I sure have many jobs in a down economy!”

    No wonder the unemployment rate is so high.

  63. Pralay Says:

    Did I even ask him whether he has $180k?
    ——

    You said (with a Cavuto mark) in #33 that he does not have $180K.

  64. Real Estater Says:

    Pralay,

    Don’t worry about DreamT. I’m sure a C level guy can explain things himself.

    We need to understand the circumstances for an everyday programmer, such as yourself. Can you afford a $180K house? Would buying such a house put you under?

  65. SEA Says:

    “…there are number of private elementary school in your area I can refer you to.”

    Who’s looking up the schools for whom?

  66. Pralay Says:

    If we need translation, we’d ask someone who has some basic English skills.
    —-

    Make sure that the person you ask for translation knows how to spell “excerpt” before trying to explain the meaning of it. :)

  67. Pralay Says:

    Don’t worry about DreamT. I’m sure a C level guy can explain things himself.
    ——

    Translation: I give up. Time to change the subject.

    :)

  68. SEA Says:

    Does Real Estater’s house have curve apreal?

  69. Real Estater Says:

    Question (#64): Can Pralay afford a $180K house?

    Answer (#67): I give up. Time to change the subject.

    :-)

  70. Real Estater Says:

    Classic Pralay!

  71. Real Estater Says:

    All,

    Most of you have seen the long standing (or outstanding) question Pralay has been avoiding: Why he’s “not even looking” when home prices are down.

    Apparently, he’s even unsure whether he can afford a $180K house!

  72. Real Estater Says:

    DreamT,

    In order to help Pralay , here’s a very basic question to settle the issue: Do you have $180K in the bank, period?

  73. Pralay Says:

    Question (#64): Can Pralay afford a $180K house?

    Answer (#67): I give up. Time to change the subject.
    —–

    LOL! Another comprehension problem by Uncle Estater.
    #76 is the perfect translation of #64. In #64 Uncle Estater gives up DreamT topic and changes the subject by asking question to Pralay.

  74. Pralay Says:

    Most of you have seen the long standing (or outstanding) question Pralay has been avoiding:
    —-

    :) The question was answered many time. An used car salesman question does not deserve a serious answer. That’s the answer.

    Now, Real Estater did not answer another “long standing” question either. In 2008 I asked him if Uncle Estater’s mother a whore. But he never answered “long standing” question.

  75. Pralay Says:

    Apparently, he’s even unsure whether he can afford a $180K house!
    —-

    Apparently, Real Estater is unsure whether his mother is whore or not!

  76. Real Estater Says:

    Pralay,

    Hope you realize that by exhibiting uncultured 3rd world behavior, you not only make a fool of yourself, but also make your country look bad. You might as well dance naked at the window of Gables End overlooking 101.

  77. Pralay Says:

    Hope you realize that by exhibiting uncultured 3rd world behavior, you not only make a fool of yourself, but also make your country look bad.
    —-

    LOL! Real Estater is trying to claim higher ground now. :)

    If you think your question is a legitimate question, why do you think MY question is not a legitimate one?

    If my question is “uncultured 3rd world behavior”, why do you think that your question is a not an “USED CAR SALESMAN” question?

  78. Pralay Says:

    but also make your country look bad.
    —-

    My country? Let me put what makes my country look bad – an “average tech guy” who can’t spell, can’t reason, can’t comprehend.

  79. madhaus Says:

    You’re all asking the wrong questions. The best long-standing question which nobody on this blog has *ever* answered: How many marble columns does your house have? And why haven’t you added more?

  80. maryjane Says:

    I hope no one saw that this was voted the #1 Real Estate Blog and decided to check it out today for the first time.

  81. Real Estater Says:

    >>Real Estater is trying to claim higher ground now.

    Really? Is it claiming higher ground, or talking to a guy in a ditch?

  82. Real Estater Says:

    >>I hope no one saw that this was voted the #1 Real Estate Blog and decided to check it out today for the first time.

    I agree. The site is tainted by some really low class stuff.

  83. DreamT Says:

    Was expecting to see Real Estate’s tribe at the Palo alto art festival this afternoon… but here he is trading barbs with his favorite poster like an old lady!

  84. SEA Says:

    Real Estater- “The site is tainted by some really low class stuff.”

    The first step toward recovery?

  85. madhaus Says:

    >> “The site is tainted by some really low class stuff.” <<

    The first step toward recovery?

    Nah. The usual step towards projection and away from responsibility. Nothing new to see here. Move along.

  86. Pralay Says:

    I agree. The site is tainted by some really low class stuff.
    —-

    :) I can get the notion of high-class” when some talks like this:

    I’m surprised you don’t have $180K. I thought you said you’re a VP level person? What the heck happened to your income? Are you a title rich but compensation poor employee?

  87. anon Says:

    Guys get a grip. What do you expect from a site whose bread and butter is trash heaps listed for 888,888?

  88. Pralay Says:

    Real Estater- “The site is tainted by some really low class stuff.”

    The first step toward recovery?
    —-

    Accusing others and playing victim card is Uncle Estater’s favorite method. Long long time back anon aptly described his behavior.

  89. SEA Says:

    “What do you expect from a site whose bread and butter is trash heaps listed for 888,888?”

    I’m thinking the TV show to go with this: “The Real Life and Trash of the RBA Hillbillies”

    “…he only got an ITT education, so he only makes $95,000 per year. He’ll be living outside the RBA in a $888,888 home.”

    “Oh, yea, if he’d got a good education, he’d be making six figures, and living in the RBA.”

  90. Real Estater Says:

    Guys,

    There is nothing to argue here. #75 speaks for itself. It’s a clear cut case. No gray area here.

  91. Pralay Says:

    Clear cut case which way? Your answers is “yes” or “no”?

  92. nomadic Says:

    “…there are number of private elementary school in your area I can refer you to.”

    Who’s looking up the schools for whom?

    #65, his parents as well as the schools failed to teach basic reasoning skills to our pet troll. Why did you guys waste the afternoon on him? I guess it’s been awhile since you got to play with him.

  93. Petsmart groomer Says:

    Busy Sunday for some of you guys… Let the troll troll…

    PS: Alex, did you see that?

  94. John Says:

    Looks like we got ourselves a real dirt bag here.

  95. Real Estate UK Says:

    I would say the skill of critical thinking is the most appreciated part of the business.

    Real Estate UK

    ***********
    Charlie

  96. bob Says:

    Most of you have seen the long standing (or outstanding) question Pralay has been avoiding: Why he’s “not even looking” when home prices are down.

    Apparently, he’s even unsure whether he can afford a $180K house!

    Perhaps because he might have some intelligence and see that home prices are still priced at asinine levels. But moving on, exactly what do you mean by “3rd world behavior?”

    Somehow it appears that this thread has been draining down the toilet for awhile.

  97. maryjane Says:

    The best thing about this thread has been clicking on all the links that go back to the old posts and seeing how these relationships have developed (or not) over time.I say it’s time to take it to the streets. Let’s all plan to be at some bar on a certain night and see who starts throwing punches first. I’ll buy the first round.

  98. Pralay Says:

    Let’s all plan to be at some bar on a certain night and see who starts throwing punches first. I’ll buy the first round.
    —–

    Someone buying my drink? Let it be this evening. :)


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